Wednesday, July 10, 2019

This answer was deleted by quora moderation 1.

A overrated and useless battle formation given too much importance in TV serials and popular fictions based on the Mahabharata.
This chakravyuha did not help the Kauravas or the Pandavas in any instance, it was easily a handicap and caused more harm to the Kuru army than good.
It means: “any circular array of troops” Sanskrit Dictionary for Spoken Sanskrit
Drona claimed that this formation couldnt be penetrated by even gods:
“Today I will also form an array that impenetrable by the very gods.”
Here is its description:
“On the other hand, the array formed by Drona, O king, looked resplendent. Indeed, that array was incapable of being looked at like the sun himself when in his course he reaches the meridian and scorches (everything underneath).”
It was described as a formation which could not be gazed/stared upon. Somehow it was invisible to the human eye.
Why yudhishthir ordered Abhimanyu:
“Beholding Drona advancing in rage. Yudhishthira thought of diverse means for checking his progress. At last, regarding Drona incapable of being resisted by any one else, Yudhishthira placed that heavy and unbearable burden on the son of Subhadra.”
The son of Subhadra is Abhimanyu, it was believed by Yudhisthir that no one else could check Drona besides Abhimanyu.
Here is the plan of Yudhishthir -
"Yudhishthira said, 'Break this array once, O foremost of warriors, and make a passage for us. All of us will follow thee in the track by which thou wilt go. In battle, thou art equal to Dhananjaya himself. Seeing thee enter, we shall follow thee, protecting thee on all sides.'
Here is the plan of Bhima -
"Bhima said, 'I myself will follow thee, and Dhrishtadyumna and Satyaki, and the Panchalas, and the Prabhadrakas. After the array once is broken by thee, will enter it repeatedly and slay the foremost warriors within it.'
They wanted Abhimanyu to break the Chakravyuha then make a pathway for them, to enter after him and then protect him.
The plan was foiled by Jayadratha but in the end it didn’t do anything well for the Kauravas, they killed one warrior (Abhimanyu) yet lost more than 25 percent of their army (which would be millions of warriors).
“The boy of mighty arms having penetrated the impenetrable array, shall range within it fearlessly and send a fourth part of the hostile force, in course of half a day, unto the regions of the king of the dead.”
I call this formation (Chakravyuha) useless because of how much the Kauravas lost just to kill one man. What happened? What did they gain? They only lost. This is no victory its another defeat.

Wednesday, July 3, 2019

Shalya respect thread.

He is the character who Krishna considers superior to his own three students (Krishna was “Parshuram” in a previous life):
“I think that the ruler of the Madras is in battle equal to Bhishma or Drona or Karna, or perhaps, superior to themI do not, O ruler of men, even upon reflection, find the warrior who may be a match for Shalya while engaged in fight.”
Anyways Krishna may have either been lying or telling the truth but the fact is that he held Shalya in a high regard, believed him to be a very powerful warrior.
He was an all rounder, one of the few supreme mace fighters in the epic. His encounters with Bhima prove this fact.
Incident 1 (11th day)
“Struck by the ruler of Madras with his mace on both the left and the right side, Bhima moved not in the least, like a hill riven by the thunder. Similarly, the mighty ruler of Madras, struck by Bhima with his mace, patiently stood still like a hill struck with the thunder. Both of them, with upraised maces, endued as they were with great impetus, fell upon each other, coursing in shorter circles. Quickly nearing each other, then by eight steps and falling upon each other like two elephants, they suddenly struck each other with those maces of theirs made entirely or iron. And each of those heroes, in consequence of the other's impetuosity and violence being struck with each other's mace, fell down at the same instant of time like a couple of Indra's poles.”
Note that both him and Bhima became unconscious, think about how much physical strength Shalya would have.
Incident 2 (18th day)
“The noise made by the blows of the maces of those two lions among men was heard on all sides like successive peals of thunder. Having ceased for a moment, those two warriors of great energy once more began, with uplifted maces, to career in closer circles. Once more the clash took place between those two warriors of superhuman feats, each having advanced towards the other by eight steps, and each assailing the other with his uplifted iron club. Then, wishing to get at each other, they once more careered in circles. Both accomplished (in the use of the mace) they began to display their superiority of skill. Uplifting their terrible weapons, they then again struck each other like mountains striking each other with their crests at the time of an earthquake. Exceedingly crushed with each other's mace in consequence of each other's strength, both those heroes fell down at the same timelike a couple of poles set up for Indra's worship.”

Monday, March 18, 2019

Inconsistencies with the character of Ashwathama.

Feats of Ashwathama
1) He killed three aukshounis.

Drona Parva Section 131 -
"He was like the illustrious fire, consuming beings at the time of the destruction of a yuga. He severely consumed one akshouhini of nairritas88 with his arrows, like the god Maheshvara burning down the city of Tripura in the sky.89"
Drona Parva Section 131 -
"While Bhimasena, Hidimba’s son, Parshata, the twin warriors, Dharma’s son, Vijaya and Achyuta looked on, within an instant, he used sharp arrows to destroy one akshouhini of rakshasas, with their horses, charioteers, chariots and elephants."
Drona Parva Section 172 -
"An entire akshouhini had been killed, burnt by the maya of that weapon and their forms could not be distinguished.79"
2) He shot a million arrows.

Yudhishthir defeated Drona.

Drona Parva Section 132 -
When that weapon was destroyed by Yudhishthira, Bharadvaja’s son hurled varuna, yamya, agneya, tvashtra and savitra weapons.104 He was extremely enraged and wished to kill the descendant of the Pandu lineage. However, the mighty-armed one, who knew about dharma, was not frightened. He used his weapons to destroy all the weapons that had been hurled by the one who had been born in a pot. The one who had been born in a pot wished to fulfil the pledge that he had made.105 O descendant of the Bharata lineage! He released the aindra and prajapatya weapons.106 He wished to kill the son of dharma and was devoted to ensuring your son’s welfare. The lord of the Kurus107 possessed the gait of an elephant and a lion. He was broad in the chest and his eyes were large and red. His energy was not inferior.108 He invoked the mahendra weapon109 and destroyed those weapons. On seeing that his weapons had been destroyed, Drona was overcome with anger. Wishing to destroy Yudhishthira, he unleashed the brahma weapon.110 Everything was covered in darkness and we could see nothing. O lord of the earth! All the beings were full of great terror. O Indra among kings! On seeing that a brahmastra had been invoked, Yudhishthira, Kunti’s son, used a brahmastra to counter it. At this, all the foremost of warriors praised those bulls among men. The great archers, Drona and Partha, were skilled in all forms of fighting. ‘“Drona abandoned Kounteya and attacked Drupada’s soldiers.




Inconsistency with Ashwathama’s character in authentic versions of mahabharata.
Even though Ashwathama defeated Ghatotkaca many times, he himself lost to Ghatotkaca (once he lost during day time when Rakshasas are weaker).


Ashwathama defeated Bhima once, http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07197.htm and stalemated him another time http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08015.htm. Yet he did so many group attacks on Bhima, even teaming up with Drona, Karna, Duryodhana etc.
(12th day) http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07030.htm
Ashwathama fears for his life when he fights Abhimanyu, Arjuna etc in war. But he claims to be immortal (even before the death of karna, upapandavas etc) so why does he fear for death?
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08088.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07046.htm
Ashwathama advised Duryodhana for peace with the Pandavas after the death of Duhsasana, yet still Ashwathama continued to wage war against them.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08088.htm
Ashwathama killed Ghatotkatcha’s son, then tells Ghatotkatcha that he does not want to kill him because he is the son of a man that his age (Bhima). http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07152.htm But then why does Ashwathama kill Ghatotkatcha’s son who was the grandson of Bhima? Why does Yudhishthira claim Ashwathama is older than him (thus older than bhima too)? http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m05/m05083.htm
Ashwathama called Sakuni the uncle of karna in virata parva, insulted Duryodhana, said he won’t fight Arjuna (yet still faced him many times in both wars), and said Karna dragged Draupadi (in Sabha Parva Duhsasana/Pratikamin did that though).
A agneya-astra of Ashwathama was able to destroy a Aukshouni of the Pandavas, how come whenever this astra was used by another warrior it did not even cause a fraction of the damage that it did when Ashwathama used it?

So Ashwathama has alot of inconsistencies in his character.

Sunday, March 17, 2019

Who could defeat Hanumana?

Their were many who could defeat Hanuman. He is not invincible or a deity.
Regarding Mahabharata characters many of them were Kshatriyas/Brahmanas who were superior to gods in battle.
Ashwathama was a avatar of Shiva, i think he could easily defeat Hanuman.
Hanuman has incredible feats of strength he did lift a mountain peak, but Indra lifted whole mountains, and this Indra lost to Arjuna.
Hanuman’s boons are also not infallible, he was wounded by Ravan’s son Trishira, proving that Hanuman can still be injured by weapons.
Hurt by the thrust of the sword, the valiant Hanuma the son of wind-god, struck Trishira on his breast, with his palm.”
I know Hanuman killed Trishira but this quote is not about that, about who is stronger its about boons failing, it is proof that Hanuman can be wounded easily by a sword.
I don’t know if Ramayana says that Hanuman tore his chest, but if it does then that means that Hanuman’s boon did not work because he injured himself.
These are some warriors who could defeat Hanuman. They are not Devtas. They’re Kshatriyas and Brahmanas (who still fought).
  1. Arjuna
  2. Abhimanyu
  3. Ashwathama
  4. Bhagadatta
  5. Drona
  6. Durvasa (he had a chariot and abducted Rukmini infront of Krishna).
  7. Dhrishtadyumna (he had the Brahmastra)
  8. Yudhishthira (because of brahmastra)
  9. Kekaya king Brihatkshatra
Because he was also a user of the brahmastra. This weapon was used by Meghanada in Sundara Kanda to subdue Hanuman.
In Yuddha Kanda Meghanada used ordinary arrows to defeat Hanuman.
“Indrajit the wielder of a great bow smacked the chest-region of Jambavan with an arrow and released ten arrows towards Hanuman, the swift monkey. Indrajit, that strong and highly courageous demons, pierced those jewels among the monkeys there with his arrows which resembled flames of fire and began to shout in triumph. Indrajit, full of joy and victorious in conflict, returned to Lanka, spreading happiness among the demons.”
This is a fair defeat, Hanuman is commonly believed by people to be stronger than he actually is.

Wednesday, January 16, 2019

Duryodhana vs Bhima a analysis.

I don't believe Bhima cheated.
1) Yes Gandhari did not ever open her eyes to look at Duryodhana's body but Duryodhana's body was still made of vajra (lightning/thunderbolt/adamantine/indestructible material).
Narrative:
In days of old. O king, we have obtained thee, by ascetic austerities from Maheswara. The upper part of thy body is wholly made of an assemblage of Vajras, and is, therefore, invulnerable to weapons of every description, O sinless one. The lower part of thy body, capable of captivating the female heart by its comeliness was made of flowers by the goddess herself--the wife of Mahadeva. Thy body is thus, O best of kings, the creation of Maheswara himself and his goddess. Therefore, O tiger among kings, thou art of celestial origin, not human.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03250.htm
Bori's version
Analysis: The critical edition also includes this. So it must be true.
Source: Vana Parva Section 240
2) Did Hanuman ever support Bhima in his battles?
Yes but all he did was utter roars, these roars would rob enemies of their lives. But we do not know (who) these enemies were.
KMG
Quote:

Even by thy prowess shall we conquer all foes." Thus addressed, Hanuman said unto Bhimasena, 'From fraternal feeling and affection, I will do good unto thee, by diving into the army of thy foes copiously furnished with arrows and javelins. And, O highly powerful one, O hero, when thou shall give leonine roars, then shall I with my own, add force to shouts. Remaining on the flagstaff of Arjuna's car will I emit fierce shouts that will damp the energy of thy foes. Thereby ye will slay them easily.'
Analysis: Have we ever read any time in the Kurukshetra war that any of Bhima's enemies died due to a roar of Hanuman? No. So we can say that Hanuman was not telling the truth. This is different from BORI CE, because BORI says that the roars will kill people, in kmg it is said that Hanuman's roar will damp the energy of Bhima's enemies. Then Bhima can slay them with ease. But even that is not true as in the main wars none of these roars of Hanuman ever happened.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03150.htm
BORI CE
Vana Parva Section 150
Hanuman said that his roars would rob the enemies of their lives.
Look at Duryodhana's death (according to BORI CE).
This has no mention of the roar of Hanuman. It's safe to conclude that Hanuman was exaggerating or that KMG is more correct because it says that Hanuman's roars would help bhima slay them easier. So to see whether Kmg is right or not we will gave to see whether hanuman roared to weaken Duryodhana, but knowing the reality hanuman never ever roared even once during the final fight of Duryodhana. So hanuman supporting Bhima in battles is not true. Only the roars of Duryodhana are mentioned in the death battle.
3) Here is the full text of the mace fight from BORI Critical Edition
(Shalya Parva Section 55):
"The great-souled Pandava raised his club and rushed at the great-souled one. Vrikodara forcefully attacked Dhritarashtra’s son. The elephants present there trumpeted and the horses neighed. The Pandavas desired victory and their weapons blazed."
(Shalya Parva Section 56):
Part 1
"On seeing that Bhimasena had approached, Duryodhana was not distressed in his soul. He roared loudly and attacked him with force. Like horned bulls, they clashed against each other. As they struck each other, there were great and thunderous sounds. That tumultuous battle commenced and it made the body hair stand up. Wishing to triumph, they fought each other in that battle, like Indra and Prahlada.22 The spirited ones fought with clubs and blood covered all their limbs. The greatsouled ones looked like flowering kimshukas. That great and extremely terrible battle raged on. As they roamed around, the sky was beautiful, as if covered with swarms of fireflies.23 That fierce and tumultuous clash raged on for some time. As they fought, both scorchers of enemies were exhausted. Having rested for a short while, those scorchers of enemies again grasped their sparkling clubs and attacked each other. Those immensely valorous bulls among men looked like strong elephants, intolerant with pride and wishing to indulge in intercourse. With clubs in their hands, those infinitely valorous ones glanced towards each other. The gods, the gandharvas and the danavas were overcome by supreme wonder. On seeing Duryodhana and Vrikodara wield those clubs, all the beings were uncertain about who would be victorious. The brothers, supreme among strong ones, attacked each other again."
Part 2
"They circled around each other, seeking to detect a weakness in each other. O king! The spectators saw that they raised those heavy and terrible clubs, which were like Yama’s staff or Indra’s vajra. In that encounter, when Bhimasena struck with his club, in an instant, it produced a terrible and fierce sound. Dhritarashtra’s son saw that Pandava was striking dexterously and powerfully with his club and was astounded. O descendant of the Bharata lineage! As the brave Vrikodara roamed around, executing many different kinds of motions, he looked resplendent. They protected themselves and attacked each other. They repeatedly wounded each other, like hungry cats over food. Bhimasena moved around in many different kinds of motions. He executed circular motions in different spots, wonderful zigzag movements, advancing and retreating. He countered strikes, struck, avoided and chased. He adopted positions that were meant for attack. He defended, restrained himself, leapt up and leapt down. Both of them were skilled in fighting with clubs and wielded them, high and low. The best among the Kuru lineage roamed around in this way, striking each other and avoiding each other. The extremely strong ones sported, executing circular motions. With clubs in their hands, those powerful ones whirled around. O king! Dhritarashtra’s son struck from the right side. Bhimasena struck from the left side. O great king! As Bhima strode around in that field of battle, Duryodhana struck him on his flank. O descendant of the Bharata lineage! When Bhima was thus struck by your son, he whirled his heavy club, thinking about how he should strike. O great king! Bhimasena’s upraised and terrible club was seen to be like Indra’s vajra or like Yama’s staff."
Part 3
"On seeing that Bhimasena was whirling his club around, your son, the scorcher of enemies, raised his terrible club and struck him again. O descendant of the Bharata lineage! Your son’s club descended with the violence of a storm. A tumultuous sound was raised and sparks were generated. Suyodhana was energetic and radiant. As he roamed around and executed many kinds of circular motions, he again got the better of Bhima. When Bhima used his gigantic club to strike with great force, smoke and sparks of fire were generated and there was also a loud and terrible sound. On seeing that Bhimasena was whirling his club, the radiant Suyodhana whirled his heavy club, which possessed the essence of stone. The great-souled one’s club had the violence of a storm. Beholding this, all the Pandus and the Somakas were terrified. They were seen in that encounter, as if they were sporting in the field of battle. Those two scorchers of enemies violently struck each other with their clubs. They were like elephants, goring each other with their tusks. O great king! With blood flowing down, they were beautiful. Thus did the battle, terrible in form, rage on. At the end of the day, it was cruel, like that between Vritra and Vasava. On seeing that Bhima was stationed, your immensely strong son executed wonderful and colourful motions and attacked Kounteya. Bhima became angry. With great force, he struck that golddecorated club.24 O great king! Sparks began to fly and there was a clap, as if lightning was mixed with thunder. O great king! Hurled powerfully by Bhimasena, the club descended and made the earth tremble. Kouravya could not tolerate that his club should be countered in the clash. He was like a crazy elephant, angered at the sight of another elephant. O king! Enraged and having made up his mind, from the left, he powerfully struck Kounteya on the head with the club. O great king! Struck in this way by your son, Pandava Bhima did not tremble and it was extraordinary."
"O king! It was wonderful and all the soldiers honoured him. Despite being struck by the club, Bhima did not waver and did not retreat a step. Bhima, terrible in his valour, picked up a flaming club, decorated with gold, which was heavier and hurled this towards Duryodhana.25 However, displaying his dexterity, the immensely strong Duryodhana freed himself from that thrust and it was extremely wonderful. O king! The club hurled by Bhima was baffled and fell down with the loud noise of a storm and made the earth tremble. Repeatedly resorting to the koushika26 technique of jumping up and circling, he27 discerned when Bhimasena would strike down with the club and deceived him. Having thus deceived Bhima, the immensely strong one, supreme among the Kuru lineage, angrily struck him in the chest with the club. Struck by the club in that great encounter, Bhima was stupefied. Having been struck by your son, he did not know what he should do. O king! At that time, the Somakas and the Pandavas were severely distressed and miserable in their minds. Having been struck, he28 became as enraged as an elephant and attacked your son, like an elephant against another elephant."
"The proud Bhima attacked your son with the club. He rushed forward with force, like a lion against a wild elephant. O king! He was skilled in releasing the club. Approaching the king, he used the club to strike in your son’s direction. Duryodhana was struck in the flank by Bhimasena. He was stupefied by this blow and sank down on his knees on the ground. O lord of the earth! At this, the Srinjayas let out a loud roar. O best of the Bharata lineage! On hearing the roar of the Srinjayas, your son, bull among men, became angry. The mighty-armed one raised himself, like an angry serpent that was sighing. He glanced towards Bhimasena and burnt him down with his sight. With the club in his hand, the great-souled one, best among the Bharata lineage, attacked and, in that clash, struck the great-souled Bhimasena on his head. Bhima was terrible in his valour. Though he was struck on his head, he did not waver, like a mountain. O king! Struck by the club in that encounter, blood began to flow from Partha and he was as beautiful as an elephant with a shattered temple."
Part 4
"Dhananjaya’s brave elder brother then picked up a club that was made out of iron and was capable of slaying heroes. It made a sound like that of the vajra. The destroyer of enemies struck powerfully with this. Struck in this way by Bhimasena, your son fell down, with his body trembling. He was like a blossoming shala tree in a large forest, whirled around by the force of a storm. On seeing that your son had fallen down on the ground, the Pandavas roared in delight. Your son recovered his senses and rose, like an elephant from a lake. The king was always intolerant. He skilfully circled around and struck Pandava, who was stationed before him, making him lose control over his limbs and fall down on the ground. In that encounter, on seeing that the infinitely energetic Bhima had fallen down on the ground, Kourava roared like a lion. Though he29 was like the thunder in his energy, the descent of the club shattered his body armour. At this, a loud roar was heard in the firmament, made by the residents of heaven and the apsaras. The immortals showered down many kinds of excellent flowers. On seeing that the supreme among men had fallen down on the ground, great fear entered the hearts of the enemies. Because of the force of Kourava’s blow, the firm armour had been shattered. However, he30 recovered his senses in a short while and wiped away the blood from his face. Resorting to his fortitude and recovering his strength, Vrikodara dilated his eyes and steadied himself."
(Shalya Parva Section 57):
Part 1
"Understanding the sign, Bhima roamed around with his club in the battle. He executed wonderful circular motions and doubled back. He circled to the right and the left and alternated between the two. O king! Pandava roamed around confounding the enemy. In that fashion, your son was also skilled in executing motions with the club. Wishing to kill Bhimasena, he roamed around, executing dexterous and wonderful motions. They whirled terrible clubs that had been smeared with sandalwood paste and unguents. They were like two angry Yamas, wishing to bring an end to the hostility. Those foremost ones, bulls among men, wished to kill each other. They fought like two Garudas who were after the same serpent. O king! Both of them executed wonderful circular motions."
Part 2
"Because of the descent of the clubs, sparks of fire were generated there. In the encounter, those brave and powerful ones struck each other equally. O king! They were like two oceans agitated by storms. Like crazy elephants, they struck each other equally. Thunderous sounds were generated from the blows of the clubs. That fierce and terrible clash continued. As they fought, both scorchers of enemies were exhausted. Having rested for some time, those scorchers of enemies again angrily grasped their giant clubs and attacked. O Indra among kings! They fought a terrible battle with the descending clubs and severely wounded each other. With eyes like bulls, they spiritedly rushed towards each other. Those brave ones fiercely struck each other, like buffaloes stuck in mud. All their limbs were mangled and they were covered with blood. They looked like two flowering kimshukas on the Himalayas."
Part 3
"Partha showed Duryodhana a weakness and smiling, he suddenly extended himself forwards.34 Vrikodara was learned about fighting. On seeing the advance, the strong one powerfully hurled the club. O lord of the earth! Seeing that the club had been hurled, your son moved from the spot and baffled, it fell down on the ground. Having respectfully warded off that blow, your son, supreme among the Kuru lineage, struck Bhimasena with the club. Struck severely by that blow and with blood flowing down, the infinitely energetic one was stupefied. However, in that encounter, Duryodhana did not realize that Pandava was afflicted. Though his body suffered great pain, Bhima bore himself. He35 thought that he was still steady and ready to strike back in the encounter. That is the reason your son did not strike him again. O king! Having rested for a while, the powerful Bhimasena attacked Duryodhana, who was stationed before him, with force. O bull among the Bharata lineage! On seeing that the angry and infinitely energetic one was attacking, he wished to save himself from the blow."
Part 4
Your great-minded son made up his mind to take a stand. O king! He leapt up, wishing to deceive Vrikodara. However, Bhimasena understood what the king wished to do. He dashed forward, roaring like a lion. O king! As the king leapt up to avoid the blow, Pandava powerfully struck him on the thighs with the club. He was terrible in his deeds and struck with a force like that of the vajra. Duryodhana’s handsome thighs were fractured. The tiger among men fell down, making the earth resound. O lord of the earth! Your son’s thighs were fractured by Bhimasena.
Analysis: In section 56 it is written that Duryodhana deceived Bhima. So rules were already broken by Duryodhana, no one cares if he struck the thighs (it is Duryodhana's job to protect his thighs).
Both Duryodhana and Bhima rested 2 times while the mace fight was continuing to go on and on and on, but Bhima rested a 3rd time.
Bhima was stupified twice. Duryodhana was stupefied twice. Duryodhana got the better of Bhima twice. Ultimately Bhima is the one who won & fought smarter. He took a defensive position but made Duryodhana believe that Bhima was attacking instead of defending. Bhima is the better fighter and defeated Duryodhana, but Duryodhana did perform well, that's all.
Krishna & Arjuna's conversation about this:
Arjuna spoke to the illustrious Vasudeva. ‘Between those two brave ones who are fighting, who do you think is superior? O Janardana! Who possesses the greater qualities? Tell me. Vasudeva replied, ‘They are equal in what they have learnt, but Bhima is stronger. However, Dhritarashtra’s son is superior to Vrikodara because of the efforts that he has undertaken. Using dharma, Bhimasena will not be able to win this encounter. He will be able to kill Suyodhana only if he fights through unfair means. It has been heard that the gods defeated the asuras through the use of maya. The slayer of Bala robbed Vritra of his energy through maya. O Dhananjaya! At the time of gambling with the dice, Bhima took a pledge that in the encounter, he would shatter Suyodhana’s thighs with a club. This destroyer of enemies needs to accomplish that pledge. The king uses maya31 and has to be brought down through maya.
Having made up his mind, he has practised with the club for thirteen years. Wishing to kill Bhimasena, he leaps up and moves diagonally. If the mighty-armed one does not slay him through unfair means, Kourava, Dhritarashtra’s son, will be the king.’ ‘ “Hearing Keshava’s words, the great-souled Dhananjaya glanced in Bhimasena’s direction and slapped his thigh with his hand.33
Analysis: Krishna says that they are equal in knowledge, bhima is superior in strength, Duryodhana ais superior due to his effort. krishna also said that Duryodhana uses deception (maya) to fight, so he can only be defeated by unfair means. Their is nothing wrong in defeating a unfair fighter through unfair methods.
About the roars of hanuman: None of the text states that Hanuman ever roared.
According to Adi parva their was a battle and not just meeting between hanuman and Bhima: "his consequent battle with the mighty Rakshasas and the Yakshas of great prowess including Hanuman;" "Then is narrated the ascent on the hills of Kailasa by Bhimasena, his terrific battle with the mighty Yakshas headed by Hanuman;"
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01003.htm

Sunday, October 28, 2018

Bhima's feats according to BORI

Bhima was actually primarily an archer. Those who say that he was more used to the mace are wrong and dont know what they are talking about.
  • Kurukshetra war
    • Bhishma Parva
      • Bhima defeated Bhisma
Bori CE Section 84 Bhishma Parva :
"In that encounter, he was the one who engaged Bhishma. There was a terrible battle between Bhishma and Bhima and an extremely terrible and fearful roar arose from all the soldiers.306 The delighted Pandavas also roared like lions. Surrounded by his brothers, King Duryodhana protected Bhishma in that battle, which resulted in a destruction of men. Bhishma was supreme among rathas. But Bhima slew his charioteer. The horses were no longer controlled and dragged the chariot away in all directions."
      • Bhima killed twenty-nine kaurava brothers
    • Drona parva
      • Bhima killed eight maharathis:
Drona Parva Section 111 -
"They were Chitra, Upachitra, Chitraksha, Charuchitra, Sharasana, Chitrayudha, Chitravarma and Chitrayodhina. O king! In that battle, these maharathas suddenly advanced against Bhima. In that encounter, he killed them and their horses, charioteers, standards and brought them down on the ground, like trees uprooted by a storm. O king! On beholding that your maharatha sons had been killed, Karna’s eyes were filled with tears and his face was full of dejection."
      • Bhima killed seven maharathis:
Drona Parva Section 112 -
"Bhimasena was oppressed by those seven angry maharathas, like seven planets afflicting the moon at the time of destruction. O king! Pandava Kounteya drew the well-decorated and firm bow with his left hand and held it in his hand.360 Knowing that they were only men,361 the lord affixed and released seven arrows that were as bright as the rays of the sun. O great king! Bhimasena remembered the earlier enmity and took away the lives from the bodies of your sons."
      • Bhima defeated Karna
Defeat 1
Drona Parva Section 104 -
"O venerable one! He then fixed an arrow to his bow and pierced Bhima. He again shot hundreds and thousands of arrows. He was suddenly enveloped by Karna, the one with the firm bow. However, the descendant of the Pandu lineage smiled and quickly severed the string of his304 bow. With a broad-headed arrow, he dispatched the charioteer to Yama’s abode. In that battle, the maharatha deprived the four horses of their lives. O lord of the earth! With the horses slain, Karna descended from the chariot. The maharatha ascended Vrishasena’s chariot. Having vanquished Karna in the battle, the powerful Bhimasena let out a mighty roar that was like the thunder of rain clouds. O descendant of the Bharata lineage! On hearing this roar, Yudhishthira was delighted, since he deduced that Karna had been defeated by Bhimasena."
Defeat 2
Drona Parva Section 106 -
"In that great battle, Bhima again pierced the son of the suta, who was as valorous as an immortal, with sixty-eight arrows in his inner organs. The powerful and enraged Bhimasena quickly severed Karna’s bow and all his implements. He used swift arrows to slay the four horses and the charioteer. With iron arrows as radiant as the sun’s rays, he struck Karna in the chest. O venerable one! After having pierced Karna, all of them penetrated the earth. O king! It was as if the sun’s rays were penetrating the clouds. He322 was proud of his manliness. But his bow had been severed and he was afflicted with arrows. He was overcome by great despondency and went to another chariot."
Defeat 3
Drona Parva Section 109 -
"Karna was without a chariot and was again defeated by Bhima."
Defeat 4
Drona Parva Section 112 -
Your son, Duryodhana, quickly spoke to the kings and the princes, and especially to his brothers. "O fortunate ones! Advance towards Karna and save him from Vrikodara. Ahead of us, the arrows released by Bhima are striking Radheya. All of you great archers should make efforts to protect the son of the suta."
Defeat 5
Drona Parva Section 114 -
"Those arrows released from Gandiva penetrated like snakes. Dhananjaya drove the son of the suta away from Bhimasena. His bow had been severed by Bhima and he was afflicted by Dhananjaya’s arrows. Karna mounted his giant chariot and quickly fled from Bhima."
Defeat 6
Drona Parva Section 130 -
Karna hurled a golden javelin towards Pandava. However, Pandu’s son laughed and seized it.61 The invincible Vrikodara hurled it back towards Karna. While it was descending through the sky, Shakuni severed it with an arrow that had been soaked in oil. O king! Your sons62 advanced towards Bhima’s chariot. They enveloped Vrikodara with a mighty shower of arrows. In that battle, Bhima laughed at Durmada and used his arrows to send his horses and charioteer to Yama’s eternal abode. Durmada ascended Dushkarna’s chariot. Those two brothers, the scorchers of enemies, were mounted on the same chariot. In the forefront of that battle, they rushed against Bhima. They were like the lord of the waters63 and Mitra attacking Taraka, supreme among daityas. Your sons, Durmada and Dushkarna, were mounted on the same chariot and pierced Bhima with arrows. While Karna, Drona’s son, Duryodhana, Kripa, Somadatta and Bahlika looked on, Pandava, the scorcher of enemies, kicked the chariot of the brave Durmada and Dushkarna and made it sink into the ground. Extremely angry, he struck and crushed those powerful and brave sons of yours, Dushkarna and Durmada, with his fists and foot. Cries of woe arose among the soldiers. On seeing Bhima, the kings said, "The one who has grasped the sons of Dhritarashtra is Rudra in the form of Bhima." O descendant of the Bharata lineage! Having said this, all the kings fled. They lost their senses and urged their mounts, with no two of them running away together.
  • Sequence of events
  1. Karna hurled a javelin.
  2. Bhima caught it and threw the same javelin back at karna.
  3. Karna was just looking at it and it was Shakuni who saved him from the javelin.
  4. Karna stared at bhima and did nothing when Bhima was slaying Kuru princes.
  5. Karna decided to flee like usain bolt.
Defeat 7
Karna Parva Section 34 -
"Thus struck by Bhimasena, the son of the suta, the leader of an army, lost his senses and sank down on the floor of his chariot. On seeing that the son of the suta had lost his senses, the lord of Madra bore Karna, the adornment of a battle, away on the chariot. When Karna was defeated, the large army of the sons of Dhritarashtra was driven away by Bhimasena, like an army of the danavas by Indra."
      • Bhima defeated Duryodhana
Defeat 1
Karna Parva Section 44 -
"Your son552 countered Bhimasena in the battle. But in an instant, Bhima deprived that lord of men of his horses, charioteer, chariot and standard. This satisfied the charanas. At this, he withdrew from Bhimasena’s presence."
Defeat 2
Drona Parva Section 25 -
"Duryodhana was enraged at this and pierced him with sharp arrows. Bhima’s eyes became red with rage and he wished to destroy the king in a short instant. So he pierced him with arrows. With arrows wounding all his limbs, he became angry and smilingly, pierced Pandava Bhimasena back with iron arrows that were as bright as the sun’s rays. The sign of a bejewelled elephant was on his83 standard, embellished with gems. Pandava used broad-headed arrows to swiftly sever this, together with his bow. O venerable one! On seeing that Duryodhana was thus afflicted by Bhima, the lord of Anga arrived there on an elephant, wishing to attack him."
Note: Bhima cut off Duryodhana's bow and flag.
Defeat 3
Bhishma Parva Section 76 -
"But Bhima penetrated it and wounded me with arrows that were like the staff of death. O king! On seeing him enraged, I was overcome with fear and lost my senses. I cannot find peace even now. You are truthful in your vows. Through your favours, I wish to obtain victory and slay the Pandavas.’ When he was thus addressed, Ganga’s great-souled son, foremost among the wielders of weapons, knew that Duryodhana was overcome by grief."
      • Bhima killed 31 kaurava brothers in a single day
Quote:
Know about the great destruction that was brought about because of your bad policy. Thirty-one of your sons were brought down by Bhimasena. With Durmukha at the forefront, they were colourful in fighting.19
Analysis: And all karna fans do is just ignore or dismiss this these 31 brothers were killed in-front of karna and karna did not do anything but cry. Seems like karna fans dont care about the lives of kaurava brothers.
Source: Drona Parva Section 122
Drona Parva Section 112 -
"On seeing that thirty-one of your maharatha sons had been killed, Duryodhana remembered the words of Kshatta,364 which had been spoken at the time of the gambling match to your evil-minded son, when Karna had spoken harsh words to Krishna365 in the assembly hall."
  • Bhima being a all-rounder
    • Mace
      • Broke Maniman's spear:
"Uttering a great roar, he flung it at Bhimasena with force. But the one who was skilled in fighting with clubs splintered the spear with the end of his club and rushed to destroy him, like Garuda against a serpent."
Vana Parva Section 157
      • Killed Maniman
"He roared in battle and flung it. With the speed of the wind, like the vajra hurled by Indra, it struck the rakshasa. Having killed him, it fell down on the ground, like a shedemon.105 All the beings saw how the rakshasa, terrible in strength, was felled by Bhimasena, like a bull by a lion."
Vana Parva Section 157

      • Wrestling
      • Sword
        • Bhima killed 15 comrades of karna using a sword
    Quote:
    Bhima leapt down from his chariot, like Vinata’s son.123 With a supreme sword, he killed the fifteen who were guarding Karna’s flank. He then again ascended his chariot and grasped another bow. He pierced Karna with ten arrows and his charioteer and horses with five.
    Analysis: Karna can never use a sword with as much proficiency as bhima did.
    Source: Drona Parva Section 30
      • Bhima's durablity
    1) No pain from karna's arrows
    2) No pain from Rakshasas/Yakshas wounds:
    "Despite being wounded by the rakshasas, Bhima felt no fear or exhaustion."
    Van Parv Section 158
    3)
    4)
      • Armed with different weapons.
    1) Vana Parva Section 157
    "He grasped his gold-plated bow, his sword and his quivers. Like an insolent lion, or like a maddened elephant, the strong one rushed towards the mountain, free from fear or delusion."
    2) Vana Parva Section 157
    "All the beings saw him, wielding his arrows, sword and bow, like a king of the beasts,102 or a maddened elephant. The Pandava was devoid of fear or delusion. To increase Droupadi’s happiness, he grasped a club and penetrated the king of the mountains."
    3) Vana Parva Section 158:
    "The one with the mighty arms carried a club, a sword and a bow and was as radiant as Maghavan,109 after slaying all the danavas in battle."
    4) Vana Parva Section 158:
    "With a beautiful golden garland on his head and with arrows, sword and bow in his hand, Bhimasena looked at the lord of riches."
    5) Van Parva Section 159:
    "Vrikodara, bull among the Bharata lineage, then laid down his spear, his club, his sword and his bow."

    Bhima killed karna's son
    Quote:
    Having picked up another bow that was firmer, Vrikodara, who was terrible in his valour, strung it and severed Sushena’s bow. He angrily pierced him with nine arrows and seemed to be dancing around. He swiftly pierced Karna with seventy-three sharp arrows. While all his well-wishers looked on, he struck Karna’s son, Satyasena, with ten arrows and brought him down, together with his horses, charioteer, standard and weapons. His beautiful face was like the full moon. The head was struck down with a kshurapra arrow and was like a lotus severed from its stalk. Having killed Karna’s son, Bhima again afflicted those on your side.
    Analysis: Karna's son was a weak warrior just like Karna. So it should be no shock to people how easily he was slain by bhim.
    Source: Karna Parva Section 32
        • Bhima defeated Sakuni
    Quote:
    However, the powerful Bhimasena countered him with force. He angrily severed his bow and pierced him with sharp arrows. O lord of men! Powerfully and extremely severely pierced by the enemy, the afflicter of enemies fell down on the ground, with only a little bit of life left in him. O lord of the earth! On discerning that he had lost his senses, your son bore him away on his own chariot, while Bhimasena looked on. On seeing that the tiger among men was taken away on the chariot, the sons of Dhritarashtra retreated. They suffered from great fear on account of Bhima and, terrified, fled in different directions. O king! When the archer Bhimasena had defeated Soubala, your son, Duryodhana, was shattered by great fear.
    Analysis: Although sakuni lost to Bhima he was actually a pretty good warrior. Sakuni was better than Karna as a archer and man.
    Source: Karna Parva Section 55
          • And same sakuni defeated satyaki while same satyaki defeated karna so the result is clear as water
    Quote:
    With a large army and together with Soubala, the brave ones from the land of Gandhara surrounded Satyaki and Abhimanyu in that battle. With many different kinds of weapons, the angry ones who were on Soubala’s side wrathfully cut down Varshneya’s supreme chariot into tiny fragments.136 In that extremely fearful battle, Satyaki abandoned his chariot and the scorcher of enemies swiftly ascended onto Abhimanyu’s chariot.
    Analysis: If it was not for Abhimanyu then Satyaki may not have survived that day. Just like if it was not for Aswathama then Satyaki would have slain Karna on the 14th day.
    Source: Bhishma Parva Section 54
    1. Bhima
    2. Sakuni
    3. Satyaki
    4. Karna
        • Bhima conquered 3 aukshounis on the 17th day
    Quote:
    Three akshouhinis from the sons of Dhritarashtra united against him. However, Bhimasena, lion among men, angrily countered them.
    Source: Karna Parva Section 43
          • They retreated from Bhim
    Quote:
    On seeing that your army had retreated before Bhimasena, the powerful one made great efforts to rally it.
    Analysis: It's clearly stated that the army was running away from Bhima it has to be the three aukshounis army that just encountered/lost to him in the previous section/quote.
    Source: Karna Parva Section 44
    • Accolades
      • Bhisma
        • Incident 1
    Quote:
    Even when they were children, all of them were superior to you in raising the club, shooting arrows, running, striking targets, eating and wrestling in the dust. Proud of their strength, like tigers, they will attack your army. They will destroy it in battle. Try to avoid the encounter with them. One by one, they can kill all the kings of the earth.
    Analysis: According to Bhisma, bhima could slay all the kings on earth. That inclues the king of Anga aka karna. He even said that Bhima is a better club/mace fighter than every kaurava brother.
    Source: Udyoga Parva section 166
        • Incident 2 (Bhisma says Bhima is sixteen times more powerful than karna).
    Quote:
    Bhimasena has eight times the qualities of a ratha. That man is energetic and insolent and possesses the strength of ten thousand elephants.
    Analysis: Bhima had the strength of 10,000 hathis. And while karna was considered a half ratha by Bhisma, Bhima was considered eight times a ratha by Bhisma. You do the math 0.5 = 1 8 = 16
    Source: Udyoga Parva section 166
          • Bhisma's views on karna
    Quote:
    He is not a full ratha. Nor is he an atiratha. Because he is always generous, he has been separated from the divine earrings he was born with. Because of Rama’s curse, the words of the brahmana and because he will be separated from his implements,25 it is my view that he is only half a ratha. When he meets Phalguna, he will not be able to escape with his life.’”
    Analysis: Karna was only a half ratha and Bhisma brought up valuable points like his curses and the loss of his divine earrings. It's no wonder that this half ratha karna could not save his son vrishasena from the mighty Arjuna.
    Source: Udyoga Parva section 165
      • Balarama
    Quote:
    Without any weapons, the long-armed Vrikodara can slay a large army of enemies. On hearing his roars, soldiers release their bowels and their bladders. He suffers now from hunger and thirst and is emaciated from journeys. But when he meets them, he will have weapons and arrows in his hands. He will then remember the extremely terrible dwelling in the forest. I am certain that he will not leave any survivors. On this earth, there will be no one else who is his equal in valour and strength. He is now thin from cold, heat, wind and sun. But in battle, he will not leave any survivors. Atiratha Vrikodara conquered the kings of the east519 in battle, together with their followers, alone on a chariot and swiftly returned, unharmed, even though he is now miserable in the forest and is clad in barks.
    Analysis: He said that Bhima defeated all kings of the east. The east includes anga/vanga/bihar which is karna's territory. So Balarama just said bhima defeated karna.
    Source: Vana Parva Section 119
      • Krishna
        • Incident 1 (Udyog parv)
    Quote:
    I know your deeds and I am not trying to find fault with you. O Pandava! The qualities I see in you are a thousand times more than those you see yourself.
    Analysis: Bhima has called himself to have the strength of ten thosuand elephants and that he can render the earth asunder, but krishna has said bhima is a thousand times better than he thinks he is. So bhima has the strength of ten million elephants not ten thousand. A 1,000 times 1,000 is 1,000,000.
    Source: Udyoga Parva Section 75
        • Incident 2 (Ghatotkaca's death)
    Quote:
    Hidimba, Baka and Kirmira have been brought down by Bhimasena. They were the equals of Ravana and destroyed the sacrifices of brahmanas.
    Analysis: So if you believe krishna is god then you have to believe that Bhima was superior to Parshuram, Balarama, and Ramayan's Rama. As bhima killed multiple ravanas while rama could only kill one.
    Source: Drona Parva Section 156
      • Sanjaya
    Quote:
    He is extremely fearsome and is without fear. He is skilled in the use of weapons. He will slay the assembled enemy forces. He will counter an ocean of chariots on a single chariot. He will destroy a mass of infantry with his club. He will swiftly destroy many soldiers. That brave one will bring down the soldiers of Dhritarashtra’s son, like a forest sliced down with an axe. Then Dhritarashtra’s son will regret the war. Dhritarashtra’s son will see his mighty army scattered, like a village that is mostly made of straw burnt by a fire, or ripe grain burnt by lightning. With the foremost warriors dead, the terrified soldiers will be reluctant. They will mostly be in flight, with no one left with any enterprise. They will be burnt by Bhimasena’s weapons.
    Analysis: According to Sanjaya Bhima was skilled in the use of weapons (astras).
    Source: Udyoga parva Section 47
        • Sanjaya talks about bhima's feats
    Quote:
    The Pandavas have gathered Bhimasena against you. There is no one on earth who is his equal in the strength of arms. That archer brought all the lords of the earth under his suzerainty. After escaping from the house of lac, Vrikodara, Kunti’s son, was their protector and saved them from the man-eating Hidimba.65 When Yajnaseni was abducted by the king of Sindhu, Vrikodara, Kunti’s son, was their protector.66 When all the Pandavas were being burnt in Varanavata, he is the one who freed them.67 He has been gathered against you. He is the one who killed the Krodhavashas and penetrated the uneven and terrible Mount Gandhamadana in order to please Krishna.68 The substance and valour of ten thousand elephants is in his arms. He has been gathered against you.
    Analysis: So even Sanjaya says that physically Bhima is the strongest man alive. He even said that all the kings living on this earth were brought under his power. He had enough strength to penetrate a mountain.
    Source: Udyoga Parva Section 49

    Sanjaya says Bhima was an Atiratha class warrior:
    Drona Parva Section 109
    "Bhimasena stretched his bow, embellished in gold. In that battle, the atiratha was stationed like a blazing fire."

    Karna's opinion on Bhima.
    1:
    It is my view that they will not retreat from the battle. The mighty-armed and infinitely energetic Vrikodara has already returned. This Kounteya is supreme among the best and he will kill the best of our rathas. With a sword, bow, javelin, horses, elephants, men, chariots39 and an iron staff, he will slay large numbers.
    Analysis: So according to karna, bhima was a man that would never retreat from the battlefield as you karna fans claim that bhima retreated/fled from a weak man like karna. And also Bhima was an all rounder thus the mahabharata describes his use of multiple different weapons. Karna even called Bhima the best warrior. Was karna a joker?
    Source: Drona Parva Section 21
        • Incident 2 (karna accepts that he cannot defeat bhima)
    Quote:
    That army has King Yudhishthira, who is firmly devoted to the truth, Bhima, Arjuna, Vasudeva, Satyaki and the Srinjayas. I think that it cannot be defeated by the kings.
    Analysis: Kings would include karna as he was also a king of anga.
    Source: Drona Parva section 2
    Incident 3
    Quote:
    "The brave archer Bhimasena is firm in his aim. In the battle, he has wounded me grievously with many nets of arrows. O one who grants honours! I have nevertheless been stationed in this battle. There is not a single limb of mine that has not been tormented by arrows in the encounter. O king! I will however fight in this battle, to the utmost of my capacity, so that the foremost among the Pandavas cannot kill Saindhava."
    Analysis: As per Karna bhima was a archer not a mace fighter. And karna even accepted that bhim gave him a huge run for his money. All of his bones have been harassed by bhima's arrows.
    Source: Drona Parva Section 120
        • Incident 4
    Quote:
    ‘O lord of Madra! O lord! There is no doubt that the words that you have spoken to me now about Bhimasena are true. Vrikodara is brave, valiant and angry. He is indifferent towards protecting his body and his life and is superior in strength.
    Analysis: Karna himself admitted that bhima is stronger than him. Stronger than he is. Bhima >>>>>> karna.
    Source: Karna Parva Section 34

    Duryodhan's opinion
    1) Drona Parva Section 127 -
    "My warrior brothers, Chitrasena and the others, have encountered Bhimasena and were destroyed by him, while we evil-souled ones looked on."
    [Duryodhana talking to karna]
    2)


    Dhritarashtra's views about Bhima.
    1. Drona Parva Section 110
    "There is no doubt that Ashvatthama, the king of Madra and Kripa, united with Karna, cannot stand before Bhima. He is extremely terrible and possesses the strength of ten thousand elephants. They know this and the cruelty and energy of Maruta’s347 son. Why did they anger the performer of cruel deeds, who is proud of his strength and valour and is like Yama at the end of a yuga, in the battle?"
    2.
    Dhritarashtra saying Bhima defeated Karna.
    1st time
    Drona Parva Section 106 -
    "In the earlier encounter, Karna had been defeated by Bhimasena. How could maharatha Radheya progress against Bhima?"
    2nd time
    Drona Parva Section 107 -
    "Dhritarashtra asked, “O Sanjaya! The hopes of my sons being victorious have always been vested in him. On seeing him retreat in the battle, what did Duryodhana say?"
    3rd time
    Drona Parva Section 108 -
    "But having heard that Karna was repeatedly defeated in the battle by Bhimasena, terrible in his deeds, I have lost my senses. Because of the wicked policies of my son, I think that the Kouravas have already been destroyed. O Sanjaya! Karna will not be able to defeat those great archers, the Parthas. Whenever Karna has fought with the sons of Pandu, the Pandavas have always defeated him in the field of battle."
    4th time
    Drona Parva Section 110 -
    "Having seen Karna defeated, Duhshasana and his brothers must be thinking about that and, out of fear, must have retreated from attacking Bhima."
    5th time
    Drona Parva Section 110 -
    "It seems that Karna, the mighty-armed son of the suta, has depended on the strength of his arms alone and disregarding this,348 has chosen to fight with Bhimasena in the battle. Pandu’s son defeated Karna in the encounter, like Purandara against the asuras."
    6th time
    Drona Parva Section 110 -
    "On seeing Karna deprived of his chariot and defeated by Bhima, there is no doubt that he must be severely repenting his refusal of Krishna.350"
    7th time
    Drona Parva Section 110 -
    "On seeing this Karna defeated in the battle, like a snake that has lost its poison and has run away, what did Duryodhana say?"
    8th time
    Karna Parva Section 35 -
    "On seeing that Radheya had been defeated by Bhima in the battle, what did my son, Duryodhana, do next?"
    Bhima's appearance.
    1) Vana Parva Section 157
    "He was handsome and noble. His complexion was like that of gold. He was spirited and strong, powerful and proud. The brave Pandava’s eyes were red and his shoulders were wide. He was like a maddened elephant in his valour. His teeth were like a lion’s and his shoulders were expansive. He was as tall as a young shala tree. The greatsouled one was beautiful in all his limbs. His neck was like a conch shell101 and his arms were huge."
    2) Vana Parva Section 157
    "All the beings then saw the handsome Pandava enveloped by the rakshasas, like the sun with masses of clouds. But just as the sun penetrates everything with its rays, the mighty-armed and powerful one, with truth as his valour, penetrated all of them with his arrows."
    3) Diguised as a cook:
    On seeing me unconscious, Kaikeyi will arise and tell her women, "I think this affection is born out of this sweet-smiling one living with the cook and she sorrows when he fights with these immensely brave beings. Sairandhri is beautiful in form and Ballava is extremely handsome."
    Virata Parva Section 18
    4) Entry into Matsya desh:
    "He was terrible in strength and his beauty was resplendent. His gait was as easy as that of a valorous lion. He held a spoon and a ladle in his hands. He also had an unsheathed black and iron sword that was devoid of any blemishes. He was in the form of a cook, but his radiance was supreme. He was like the sun illuminating the world."
    Virata Parva Section 7
    5) What Virat Raj thought when seeing Bhima:
    "On seeing the supreme one arrive, the king spoke to the assembled citizens. “Who is this handsome and young one whom we see? He is like a bull among men. His shoulders are as large as that of a lion. I have not seen a man like him before. He is like the sun."
    Virata Parva Section 7
    6) Virata's opinion/words:
    "You are one who offers honour. I do not believe that you are a cook. You seem to be the equal of the thousand-eyed one,54 in your radiance, your beauty and your valour. O son!55 You are radiant and supreme among men."
    Virata Parva Section 7
    7)
    8)
    9)
    10)

    Tuesday, September 25, 2018

    The track record of demon Nikumbha

    People like to use Harivamsa to bash Arjuna, even though Harivamsa is a non-canon source, as we should only consider Mahabharata. But fine here is the track record of Nikumbha. But i will use harivamsa to critique Nikumbha. Cause for karna fans harivamsa is only authentic for Arjuna vs Nikumbha but if it's Pradyumna defeating karna and using his physical strength to toss karna into a cave then it's not canon. Just because karna lost it cannot be considered canon, but if someone can swoon Arjuna then karna fans choose to consider it authentic.

    • Defeated by mighty Jayanta (elder son of Indra)
    Quote:
    As he fell down on earth, jayanta, indra's son, (aindri) embraced him with his arms. When he realized that pravara was alive, he left him and quickly attacked the demons. He quickly ran towards nikumbha and struck him with his sword. Then the demon struck jayanta with iron bludgeon. I should fight with kR^iShNa, who is the enemy and killer of my kinsmen. Why should I receive strikes at the hands of the son of shakra (jayanta) in the battle? Deciding thus, he disappeared then and there and went to fight where kR^iShNa of great power was present.
    Analysis: Leave aside Arjun.... even Jayant is more powerful than him (Nikumbha), he was a weak warrior. Arjuna was certainly better than both nikumbha and Jayanta.
    Source: http://www.mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_085.html
      • Indra is pleased at the retreat of Nikumbha
    Quote:
    The destroyer of bala (indra) mounted on airAvata, who had arrived with other deva-s to watch the battle, saw him and was happy. Happily he congratulated his son, saying, well done, well done, and caressed him. The one with righteous soul caressed pravara who had become conscious by then.
    Analysis: Indra is stated as praising his son, and another name of indra is shakra.
    • Nikumbha made Krishna unconscious
    Quote:
    O lord! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) nikumbha struck kR^iShNa forcefully with the iron bludgeon. kR^iShNa also struck nikumbha forcefully with his mace. Being struck forcefully, both of them became unconscious and leaned to their sides. Seeing that the pANDava-s and yAdavAs are stunned (due to kR^iShNa becoming unconscious) the assembly of sages chanted desiring the benefit of kR^iShNa.
    Analysis: Every karna fan seems to talk about how the saptarishis prayed for Arjuna in the saindhava war, they claim that the saptarishis saved him, but no karna fan bats an eye when it is shown that other sages chanted mantras to help krishna, no one says they saved krishna. I wonder why? Ah it's because of double standards and biasedness of the karna fanbase.
    • Nikumbha cheated in his fight by hiding behind a woman
    Quote:
    O the best among kings! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) For the safety of the maiden, neither kR^iShNa-s (kR^iShNa and arjuna), nor kAma (pradyumna) struck the great asura, nikumbha, without kindness.
    Analysis: It was no ordinary maiden she was a member of arjuna & krishna's family.
    • Pathetic defeat & retreat of Nikumbha at the hands of Arjuna.
    Quote:
    The best among the wielders of bow, the son of pR^itha (arjuna), expert in battle by all means, shot groups of arrows at the daitya, nikumbha, using the technique of nAgoShtra (see Note 1). arjuna shot many twelve finger long arrows at the dAnava, nikumbha, in the battle without harming the maiden, O the lord of earth! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) with his art, logic and training. Then nikumbha vanished from there along with the maiden, using the illusory skill of demons. No one knew about this.
    Analysis: Nikumbha ran away. He was scared of Arjuna's arrows, he chickened out. Yet people call this a defeat of Arjuna instead of a defeat of nikumbha.
    • Nikumbha was a roadrunner, he contineud to flee from Arjuna & Krishna
    Quote:
    O king ! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) The demon nikumbha, oppressed by the sharp arrows shot by kR^iShNa-s (kR^iShNa and arjuna), abandoned the north gokarNa and proceeded in the southern direction.
    Analysis: He was running away to south india.
    • Nikumbha makes Arjuna unconsious (his only claim to fame)
    Quote:
    O the ruler of earth! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) As nikumbha came out of the cave, the son of pR^itha (arjuna) blocked all the ways by shooting arrows using the bow gANDIva. nikumbha, the best among the powerful, as he came out, struck the son of pR^itha (arjuna) on the head, with a terrible mace, full of thorns. nikumbha vanished. The valiant son of pR^itha (arjuna) who was struck on his head by the mace became unconscious. He vomited blood and became unconscious.
    Analysis: I can accept this as a defeat of Nikumbha did not choose to run away, the fact remains that Arjuna defeated nikumbha twice. Arjuna was made unconscious just like krishna was made unconsious.
    • Nikumbha swooned Pradyumna
    Quote:
    nikumbha having the power of illusion, struck pradyumna, the best of illusionists who was facing him and vanished. The valiant pradyumna, struck on his head became unconscious. Seeing arjuna and pradyumna becoming unconscious after being struck heavily, govinda (kR^iShNa) became highly angry and attacked nikumbha.
    Analysis: It's clear that Pradyumna was also swooned by Nikumbha. So Nikumbha is the warrior that could make Krishna unconscious, Arjuna unconscious and even Pradyumna unconscious. Of course Nikumbha just hits you and then runs away reallly fast, he ahs a hit and run fighting style.
    • Nikumbha makes krishna unconscious once again
    Quote:
    At that time, kR^iShNa also whirled his great mace and struck nikumbha on his head. hari (kR^iShNa) touched the ground with his mace kaumodakI, for a moment. Then the perceptor of the world, the one with intellect (kR^iShNa) became unconscious and fell on the earth. Then the entire world became distressed, O the lord of men (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) since the great soul, the son of vasudeva (kR^iShNa) became unconscious.
    Analysis: This indeed happened (at-least in harivamsa) but it is not something knew for krishna as when he went to punish Salwa he was also made unconscious then too.
      • Indra saves krishna
    Quote:
    The lord of deva-s, indra himself, sprinkled a mixture of nectar and the cold fragrant water of the divine ga~Nga on kR^iShNa.
    Analysis: it is said after this that krishna did this through his own will but that's simply not true, only the opinion of the characters can truly be taken to granted, not the opinion of some translator who mistranslates a quote to say a character was mad eunconscious because he wanted that to happen.
    • Nikumbha captured Arjuna
    Quote:
    Thousands (of nikumbha-s) fought with kR^iShNa, O the oppressor of enemies! (janamejaya! vaisampAyana continued), thousands fought with the son of pR^itha (arjuna) and thousands fought with the valiant son of rukmiNI. This was a wonder. Some of the great demons (nikumbha-s) held the bow of the pANDava (arjuna), some others held his hand, some other great demons held his feet. Holding the valiant (arjuna) in this manner, they rose up in the sky. Then there were crores of sons of pR^itha held this way.
    Analysis: When your feet and hands are held then what do you expect Arjuna to do against thousands of nikumbhas? Besides Arjuna's bow was not at his hands at the moment. Pradyumna & Krishna were fighting from a distance, Arjuna was fighting up close in close quarters, he wasn't sitting back and shooting from distances. Holding is not defeating by the way. Nowhere is defeat mentioned.
    • Nikumbha had a boon of shiva
    Quote:
    Lord hara (shiva) agreeing to give boon to him, asked him. He asked for three forms which could not be destroyed by deva-s and demons. Then the great deva, lord shiva, having the bull as his flag told him: O great demon! If you do what is not liked by me, brahmins or viShNu, you will be killed by hari (viShNu - kR^iShNa) and not by others. I and viShNu, worshipped by brahmins are the last refuge of brahmins. O the son of pANDu! (kR^iShNa continued) That nikumbha cannot be killed by any weapon.
    Analysis: "others" includes not just devas/demons but also humans like Arjuna.
    Nikumbha was a good road runner, great warrior, achieved amazing feats in battle, but runs away alot. He never defeat Jayanta (a son of Indra).
    And Nikumbha's existence is questionable as Harivamsa is not authentic/canon.