Friday, June 17, 2022

Story of trigart army.

My attempt at making at keeping track of whatever the clan of trigartas did. They were better fighters than namard hanuman, laxman, parshuram etc. So they deserve more respect and attention.
==
1st - Vana Parva is when they get a early mention.
2nd - After that it's Virat Parva where they're given importance.
3rd - Bhishma Parva
4th - Drona Parva
5th - Karna Parva
6th - Shalya Parva
7th - Ashwamedh Parva
===========
Before Kurukshetra.
Possibility of their being 2 kings at once.
[]
"The king of Trigartas, bow in hand descending from his great chariot, killed the four steeds of yudhisthir with his mace. But Kunti's son, king Yudhishthira the just, seeing the foe approach so near, and fighting on foot, pierced his breast with a crescent-shaped arrow. And that hero, thus wounded in the breast began to vomit blood, and fell down upon the ground besides Pritha's son."
[]
Comment - his name is not mentioned, the question is whether he died or just fell down on the floor? After all the trigart king was on a way to a marriage ceremony so his armor wouldnt be very durable here as he is not prepared for a violent/warlike situation. So his death is extremely likely.

The other monarch.
[Quote]
"Suratha, the king of Trigartas, well-versed in elephant-charges, approaching the front of Nakula's chariot, caused it to be dragged by the elephant he rode."
[eNd]
Susarman's reign;
"The mighty king of the Trigartas, Susarman, who owned innumerable cars, regarding the opportunity to be a favourable one."
=======
1st day:
"And against Susarman, that mighty car-warrior and tiger among men, Chekitana of great prowess, rushed in exceeding wrath for the sake of the Pandavas. And Susarman also, O great king, in that encounter checked the advance of that mighty car-warrior Chekitana with plentiful shower of arrows. And Chekitana also, greatly provoked, showered on Susarman, in that terrible conflict, a shower of arrows like a mighty mass of clouds showering rain on the mountain breast."
[eNd]

2nd day.
[]
"Somadatta, and Susarman, and Sudakshina, the ruler of the Kamvojas and Satayus, and Srutayus, were on the right flank. And Aswatthaman, and Kripa, and Kritavarman of Satwata's race, with a very large division of the troops, were, stationed at the rear of the army."
[]
===
3rd Day.
Head of garood vyuha;
[]
"Those renowned warriors, Aswatthaman and Kripa, supported by the Trigartas, the Matsyas, the Kekayas, and the Vatadhanas, were in its head."
[]
==
Day 4.
[quote]
"Trigartas and the Madras, with the Kekayas, numbering five and twenty thousand urged by thy son, all of whom were foremost of men accomplished in the science of arms and who were incapable of defeat by foes in battle, surrounded Kiritin with his son for slaying them both."
[eNd]
=
dAy 5:
"The heroic Nakula capable of wringing tears from the foe, engaged in battle with the excellent car-warriors of the Trigartas."
[enD]
==
day 6
"Susarman the king of Prasthala, accompanied by his own troops, stood, accoutred in mail, in the left wing."
=
7th day;
[quote]
"Then Arjuna, having vanquished those kings headed by Susarman along with all their followers, in the midst of their division, proceeded towards his tent."
[end]
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06087.htm
========
11th night OR 12th morning:
[quote]
"Satyaratha, Satyavarman, and Satyavrata and Satyeshu, and Satyakarman also, having spoken similarly, those five brothers together, with ten thousand cars, came, O king, (before Duryodhana), having taken that oath on the field of battle. And the Malavas, and the Tundikeras with thousand chariots and the tiger among men, Susarman, the ruler of Prasthala, with the Mavellakas, the Lalithas, and the Madrakas, accompanied by ten thousand cars and his brothers, and with another ten thousand cars from diverse realms came forward for taking the oath."
[enD]
=
12th day.
[Quote]
The son of Pandu then, in that battle, with a broad-headed arrow, cut off the leathern fence of Suvahu, and covered Sudharman and Sudhanwan, and Suvahu pierced Partha with ten arrows. Partha, having the excellent ape-device on his banner, pierced all of them in return with many arrows, and also cut off, with some broad-headed shafts, their standards made of gold. And cutting off the bow of Sudhanwan, he slew with his arrows the latter's steeds. And then he cut off from his trunk the latter's head graced with turban. Upon the fall of that hero, his followers were terrified."
[eNd]
Comment - susarman lost at minimum one family member (sudhanwan)

[Quote]
Susarman with his brothers, followed him behind, desirous of battle. The ever-victorious Arjuna then addressed Krishna, saying "O thou of unfading glory, this Susarman here, with his brothers, challengeth me to battle! O slayer of foes, our army, again, is broken by Drona towards the north."
[End]
Logic; this indicates that Susarman had atleast 2 brother's that survived the massacre so far.

2 brothers (or even more than that) died;
"Then Arjuna pierced Susarman with seven shafts, and cut off both his bow and standard with a couple of sharp arrows. He then, with six arrows, quickly despatched the brothers of Trigarta king to Yama's abode."
[END]
After Bhagadatta died the day was not over, Arjun continued his duel with Trigarta dynasty.
{quoTe}
"Alas, how would Indra's son (Arjuna) be able to rescue us from the foe, when that mighty warrior is engaged on the southern part of the field in slaughtering the remnant of the Samsaptakas and the Narayana force?"
{eNd}

He used some divine astra to get rid of them;
"Meanwhile, Jishnu, having vanquished large number of Samsaptakas, quickly came to that place where Drona was grinding the Pandava troops. Having crossed many large lakes whose waters were constituted by blood, and whose fierce billows and eddies were constituted by shafts, and having slain the Samsaptakas, Phalguni showed himself there. Possessed of great fame and endued as he was with the energy of the Sun himself, Arjuna's emblem, his banner bearing the ape, was beheld by us to blaze with splendour. Having dried up the Samsaptaka ocean by means of weapons that constituted his rays, the son of Pandu then blasted the Kurus also."
[enD]
===
13th day.
The only thing the trigarts were successful in (besides living on) was taking Arjuna extremely far from the main battlefield. None of their major warriors and royalty died this day.
=
14th day.
It is a mystery on what Susarman did during this battle. But other trigarts did fight, they just were lower in terms of heirarchy in the royal family.
Chedi king slew Trigart prince.
Quote;
Bending with his hands, O Bharata, that dart of fierce energy towards the car of Viradhanwan, Dhrishtaketu hurled it carefully and with great force. Struck with great p. 216 force by that hero-slaying dart, and his heart pierced by it through, Viradhanwan, quickly fell down on the earth from his car. Upon the fall of that hero, that mighty car-warrior among the Trigartas, thy army, O lord, was broken by the Pandavas.
[End]

Niramitra was compared to rakshas adi pati Khara;
[quoTe]
"Thereupon, prince Niramitra, the son of the ruler of the Trigartas, fell down from his car, afflicting thy army with great grief. Slaying him, the mighty-armed Sahadeva looked resplendent like Rama, the son of Dasaratha, after slaying the mighty (Rakshasa) Khara. Beholding that mighty warrior prince Niramitra slain, loud cries of Oh and Alas arose, O monarch, among the Trigarta warriors. Nakula, O king, in a moment vanquished thy son Vikarna of large eyes."
=========
14th night.
Quote:
"thy son then urged forward placing them at the van, the remnant of the brave and mighty Trigarta car-warriors."
[End.]
15th day.
Maybe they rested i come to this conclusion because they were absent until drona died.
[Quote]
"Accompanied by his elephants and horses and cars, and surrounded also by foot-soldiers, thy son, the mighty car-warrior, Duryodhana, too, fled away, O king, taking with him the remnant of the Samsaptakas whom Arjuna had not yet slaughtered. Susarman, O king, fled away, beholding Drona slain."
[End]
=========
16th day.
[quote]
"Dhananjaya rushed against the angry throngs of the samsaptakas. In that slaughter of great heroes, Dhrishtadyumna proceeded against Kripa. The invincible Shikhandi closed with Kritavarma."
[end]

Next incident;
"Arjuna once more pierced with his fierce shafts, the samsaptakas with their steeds, drivers, cars, elephants, standards and foot-soldiers. Every one of those that stood there as spectators, every one of those that were stationed there on foot or car or steed or elephant, regarded himself as shrouded by the arrows of Arjuna. Shot from Gandiva, those winged arrows of diverse forms slew in that battle elephants and steeds and men whether stationed in his immediate front or at the distance of two miles."

Susarman still had many brothers alive:
[Quote]
"the king of the Trigartas surrounded by his brothers and by his sons that were all mighty bowmen accomplished in diverse weapons, suddenly advanced, shooting and scattering showers of shafts in that battle, against Arjuna"
[End]
===========
Who arjun kills on day 16.
Quote:
"Thus pierced in that encounter by many, Arjuna pierced all those kings in return. Indeed, piercing the son of Susruta with seven arrows, he pierced Satyasena with three, Satrunjaya with twenty and Candradeva with eight, Mitradeva with a hundred, Srutasena with three, Mitravarman with nine, and Susharma with eight. Then slaying king Satrunjaya with a number of arrows whetted on stone, he smote off from his trunk, the head, decked with headgear, of Susruta's son. Without any delay he then, with a number of other shafts, despatched Candradeva to the abode of Yama. As regards the other mighty car-warriors vigorously contending with him, he checked each of them with five arrows."
"Having thus cut off Satyasena's head, he then despatched Citravarman with a number of keen shafts, and then the latter's driver, O sire, with a keen calf-toothed arrow. Filled with rage, the mighty Partha then, with hundreds of shafts, felled the samsaptakas in hundreds and thousands."

All were Kshatriya's who commanded several elephants and chariots. They were all well trained men from trigarta.

Susruta wielded a Lance which he attacked krishna with tossing it. This lance pierced right through the lords left arm causing him so much pain that he dropped the reins to arjuns horse.
=======
18TH DAY
Quote:
"Arjuna, that slayer of large bands of foes, rushed with great speed against that great bowman Kritavarma and the Samsaptakas."
[End]
[Quote]
"Then the ape-bannered son of Pandu, O king, having slaughtered the Samsaptakas in battle, rushed against that portion of the Kaurava army."
[enD]

"Arjuna, in that battle, pierced with many arrows by the son of Drona as also by the latter's followers, the heroic and mighty car-warriors among the Trigartas, pierced Drona's son in return with three shafts, and each of the other warriors with two."

"Then, O monarch, that warrior, invincible in battle, the son of Drona, well-equipped with armour and weapons, and supported by the Samsaptakas, fought with Arjuna."

[Quote]
"Kunti's son, Dhananjaya, otherwise called Partha, putting forth his prowess, cut off the heads of many brave combatants on horse-back. Indeed, Partha, with many arrows, destroyed that (cavalry) division. Having felled all the steeds, he then proceeded against the cars of the Trigartas. At this, the great car-warriors of the Trigartas, uniting together, covered Arjuna and Vasudeva with showers of shafts. Assailing Satyakarman with a razor-headed arrow, the son of Pandu, possessed of great fame, cut off his adversary's car-shafts. With another razor-headed arrow, O lord, whetted on stone, that celebrated hero, smiling the while, cut off his antagonist's head adorned with bright gold."
"He next attacked Satyeshu in the sight of all the warriors, like a hungry lion, O king, in the forest, attacking a deer. Having slain him, Partha pierced Susarman with three arrows and then slew all those car-warriors adorned with ornaments of gold. He then proceeded against Susarman the ruler of Prashthala with great speed, vomiting the virulent poison of his wrath cherished for many long years. Covering him first, O bull of Bharata's race, with a hundred arrows, Arjuna then slew all the steeds of that bowman."
"Fixing then on his bowstring a mighty arrow that resembled the rod of Yama, Partha, smiling the while, quickly sped it at Susarman, aiming it at him. Sped by that bowman blazing with wrath, that arrow, reaching Susarman, pierced through his heart in that battle. Deprived of life, O monarch, Susarman fell down on the Earth, gladdening all the Pandavas and paining all thy warriors. Having slain Susarman in that battle, Partha then, with his shafts, despatched the five and thirty sons of that king, all of whom were great car-warriors, to Yama's abode. Slaying next all the followers of Susarman with his keen arrows, the mighty car-warrior, Arjuna, proceeded against the remnant of the Bharata host."
[End]
Basically - 38 people (Satyeshu, Satyakarman, Susarman & his 35 son's).

As per Puranas the Trigart brahmin-priest who lived in the abode of the king of Trigarta was named "Garga" or "Seshiryan" he had left the trigart nation before Kamsa imprisoned Krishna's parents (yet another incident that occured only in purans not in Mahabharat).
Shesiryan was the real biological father of Kalyavan. So Kalyavan was a trigarta by blood from the brahmin caste not a Mlecch and Yavana.
Bur this guy is not mentioned in mahabharat.
======
List of king's they had.
Suratha is king during Vana Parv.

Susarman was king on day 12.

Suryavarman after kurukshetra's war.
========
POST WAR CHAPTER.
[1st beginning]
"A battle took place between the diadem-decked (Arjuna) and the sons and grandsons of the Trigartas whose hostility the Pandavas has incurred before and all of whom were well-known as mighty car-warriors. Having learnt that that foremost of steeds, which was intended for the sacrifice, had come to their realm, these heroes, casing themselves in mail, surrounded Arjuna. Mounted on their cars, drawn by excellent and well-decked horses, and with quivers on their backs, they surrounded that horse, O king, and endeavoured to capture it. The diadem-decked Arjuna, reflecting on that endeavour of theirs, forbade those heroes, with conciliatory speeches, O chastiser of foes. Disregarding Arjuna's message, they assailed him with their shafts."
[1st END]

[2ND START]
The diadem-decked Arjuna resisted those warriors who were under the sway of darkness and passion. Jishnu, addressed them smilingly "Desist, ye unrighteous ones. Life is a benefit, that should not be thrown away." At the time of his setting out, he had been earnestly ordered by king Yudhishthira the just, not to slay those Kshatriyas whose kinsmen had been slain before on the field of Kurukshetra. Recollecting these commands of king Yudhishthira the just who was endued with great intelligence, Arjuna asked the Trigartas to forbear. But they disregarded Arjuna's injunction. Then Arjuna vanquished Suryavarman, the king of the Trigartas, in battle, by shooting countless shafts at him and laughed in scorn. The Trigarta warriors, however, filling the ten points with the clatter of their cars and car-wheels, rushed towards Dhananjaya.
[2ND END]

"Then Suryavarman, displaying his great lightness of hand, pierced Dhananjaya with hundreds of straight arrows, O monarch. The other great bowmen who followed the king and who were all desirous of compassing the destruction of Dhananjaya, shot showers of arrows on him. With countless shafts shot from his own bow-siring, the son of Pandu, O king, cut off those clouds of arrows; upon which they fell down. Endued with great energy, Ketuvarman, the younger brother of Suryavarman, and possessed of youthful vigour, fought, for the sake of his brother, against Pandu's son possessed of great fame. Beholding Ketuvarman approaching towards him for battle Vibhatsu, that slayer of hostile heroes, slew him with many sharp-pointed arrows."
"Upon Ketuvarman's fall, the mighty car-warrior Dhritavarman, rushing on his car towards Arjuna, showered a perfect downpour of arrows on him. Beholding that lightness of hand displayed by the youth Dhritavarman, Gudakesa of mighty energy and great prowess became highly gratified with him. The son of Indra could not see when the young warrior took out his arrows and when he placed them on his bow-string aiming at him. He only saw showers of arrows in the air. For a brief space of time, Arjuna gladdened his enemy and mentally admired his heroism and skill. The Kuru hero, smiling the while, fought with that youth who resembled an angry snake. The mighty armed Dhananjaya, glad as he was in beholding the valour of Dhritavarman, did not take his life."
"While, however, Partha of immeasurable energy fought mildly with him without wishing to take his life, Dhritavarman shot a blazing arrow at him. Deeply pierced in the hand by that arrow, Vijaya became stupefied and his bow Gandiva fell down on the Earth from his relaxed grasp. The form of that bow, O king, when it fell from the grasp of Arjuna, resembled, O Bharata, that of the bow of Indra (that is seen in the welkin after a shower). When that great and celestial bow fell down, O monarch, Dhritavarman laughed loudly in battle. At this, Jishnu, excited with rage, wiped the blood from his hand and once more taking up his bow, showered a perfect downpour of arrows. Then a loud and confused noise arose, filling the welkin and touching the very heavens as it were, from diverse creatures who applauded that feat of Dhananjaya. Beholding Jishnu inflamed with rage and looking like Yama himself as he appears at the end of the Yuga, the Trigarta warriors hastily surrounded him, rushing from their posts and desirous of rescuing Dhritavarman. Seeing himself surrounded by his foes, Arjuna became more angry than before. He then quickly despatched eight and ten of their foremost warriors with many shafts of hard iron that resembled the arrows of the great Indra himself."
[END]

LAST PART.
The Trigarta warriors then began to fly. Seeing them retreat, Dhananjaya, with great speed, shot many shafts at them that resembled wrathful snakes of virulent poison, and laughed aloud. The mighty car-warriors of the Trigartas, with dispirited hearts, fled in all directions, exceedingly afflicted by Dhananjaya with his arrows. They then addressed that tiger among men, that slayer of the Samsaptaka host (on the field of Kurukshetra), saying "We are your slaves. We yield to thee. Do thou command us, O Partha. Lo, we wait here as the most docile of thy servants. O delighter of the Kurus, we shall execute all thy commands." Hearing these words expressive of their submission, Dhananjaya, said unto them "Do ye, O kings, save your lives, and accept my dominion."
Logic - this indicates that their was a practice of having multiple kings on the same throne in prasthala [trigart capital] at the same time. Like their was a government called "co rulership" where 2 kings can be one 1 throne at the same occasion.

NOTE:
I did not study their presence on the 17th day in this post, neither did i elaborate on the 13th enough.
Posted by at 1 comment:

Monday, May 30, 2022

Arjuna vs Krishna who would win?

Intro - this's a fair debate and discussion, its also one of the few instances where i believe truly that Arjuna would lose. But i do not think it will be a landslide or a one sided fight, they were almost equal as fighters.
The problem for Arjuna - is even if Arjuna had equal speed, strength, reflexes, skill's as Krishna then the fact is that he is far below him in the category of intelligence.
Krishna never made dumb vow's or promises or pledges or decisions in his life.
Explanation - everyone who is a arjun fan knows that he made bad decisions in his life. The lifechoice he made to commit suicide (if he failed to kill Jayadrath) was very irrational. And he made another choice to end Yudhisthir's life on the seventeenth day, then to take his own life after insulting Yudhisthir. How is this justifiable?
Krishna as a intelligent mard never did anything like that he wasn't ridiculous.

Contrary to popular belief their are 2 versions which claim Krishna lost to Arjuna.
1st - Indonesian Translation;
[quote]
"Jarasanda, the Kaurava, Bima and Nakula and Sahadewa were all slain. Yudistira was rendered unconscious by Krishna and couldn't move. Then Krishna was challenged by Arjuna and nearly lost, and thus the god Vishnu descended from heaven. Krishna, as an avatar of Vishnu turned into Vishnu, while Arjuna, who was also an avatar of Vishnu, also turned into Vishnu. Yudistira then became conscious again, and asked Vishnu to bring back to life all those who had been slain in the fighting. Vishnu agreed, and He rained down immortality and all those who had been slain came back to life, including Jarasanda. They all then joined the festivities for Krishna's wedding."
[end]
{Screenshot}
                Now no one can change it.
2nd
[quote]
"When all his arrows fail sri Krishna uses Sudarshan Chakra, the magical disc he obtained from Agnidev, while Arjuna realising what he is up against at this time called his Pasupat Astra."
[end]
Source: Prachanda Yadavam
Commentary - if arjun had pashupatastra here then that means this incident is after his fight with Shiva. Maybe during vana parva or udyoga parva but never before any of those.
======
3rd Arjun did put hands on sri Krishna twice in Kurukshetra in order to prevent the man from killing a namard called "Bhishma" he was able to stop him from moving.
Day three
[quote]
"Partha, himself of massive and long arms, quickly ran on foot after that chief of Yadu's race possessed of massive and long arms, and seized him by his two hands. That first of all gods devoted in self, Krishna, was excited with rage. And therefore, though thus seized, Vishnu forcibly dragged Jishnu after him, like a tempest bearing away a single tree."
"The high-souled Partha, however, seizing them with great force his legs as he was proceeding at a quick pace towards Bhishma, succeeded, O king, in stopping him with difficulty at the tenth step. And when Krishna stopped, decked as he was with a beautiful garland of gold."
[End]
Day nine
[quote]
"Partha. quickly following Kesava behind, seized him by encircling him with his two arms. That best of male beings, Krishna, of eyes like lotus petals, seized by Partha, still proceeded with great speed, bearing the latter away with him."
"The mighty Partha, that slayer of hostile heroes, however, forcibly catching hold of his legs, stopped Hrishikesa with great difficulty at the tenth step. Then Arjuna his dear friend, filled with sorrow, affectionately addressed Kesava, who was then sighing like a snake and whose eyes were troubled in wrath."
[end]
=======
The worst moments in both their lives.
Krishna let Rukmini get beat up when muni Durvasa came.
Arjuna let Draupadi get abused by prince Duhsasana.

Quote to prove the Durvasa conflict;
"Brahmana blazed with effulgence like fire, and struck, in my presence, my Rukmini endued with youth, as if she were an animal destined to drag the cars of human beings. Beholding this, I did not feel the slightest grief born of malice or the desire to injure the Rishi. Indeed, having yoked Rukmini to the car, he went out, desirous of proceeding along the high road of the city."
[End]
======================
Arjuna would lose to sri Krishna but it would be a very hard battle. Arjuna was very near Krishna in power.
His best weapon (Sammohan Astra) is not in Krishna's arsenal.
I believe Krishna would win this fight but it wont be a land slide or a mismatch as most people think.
Posted by at 4 comments:

Friday, May 27, 2022

All brother's of Duryodhan.

Note: I will have to exclude Yuyutsu's character from this post. This can only be about the brother's of duryodhan that died fighting in the war of Kurukshetra.
=
Part 0:
Other names got mentioned here.
[Quote]
"Duryodhana, Durvisaha, Durmukha and Dushpradharshana, Vivinsati, Vikarna, Saha, and Duhsasana; Yuyutsu and Vayuvega and Bhimavegarava; Ugrayudha, Valaki, Kanakayu, and Virochana, Sukundala, Chitrasena, Suvarcha, and Kanakadhwaja; Nandaka, and Vahusali, and Tuhunda, and Vikata; these, O sister, and many other mighty sons of Dhritarashtra."
[End]
Comment - here 23 kuru princes are mentioned. It also said "many other sons of Dhritrashtra" but in my view i think that their is no way all sons could have arrived at the Swayamvara. It would be too risky to make all your potential heir's leave the capital at once.
The names of "vayuvega" "sukundala", "vahusali" and Tuhunda are only ever mentioned here no where else.
=
                        Part 1
Bhishma Parva.
4th day.
Quote 1 (who attacked bhima?):
"thy fourteen sons, Senapati, Sushena, Jalasandha, Sulochana, Ugra, Bhimaratha, Bhima, Viravahu, Aolupa, Durmukha, Dushpradarsha, Vivitsu, Vikata, and Sama, then encountered Bhimasena in battle. United together they rushed against Bhimasena, and with eyes red in wrath, showering countless arrows, they pierced him deeply."
Commentary; durmukha died later on (on day 14) so he cant be slain here, anyway's 6 of these brothers (excluding "durmukh") lived past this day, so its a misconception that fourteen were killed.
Quote 2 (who died?):
"Son of Pandu then cut off the head of Senapati with a shaft having a horse-shoe head. And with delighted soul and laughing the while, that mighty-armed warrior, piercing Jalasandha with three arrows, despatched him to Yama's abode. And next, smiting Sushena, he sent him to the presence of Death's self. And with a single broad-headed shaft he felled on the ground the head, handsome as the moon, of Ugra, decked with turban and adorned with ear-rings."
"And in that battle, Pandu's son Bhima, with seventy shafts, despatched Viravahu to the other world with his steeds and standard and charioteer. And smiling the while, O king, Bhimasena quickly despatched both the brothers Bhima and Bhimaratha also to Yama's abode. And then in that great battle in the very sight of all the troops, with an arrow of horse-shoe head Bhima despatched Sulochana also to Death's domain. Then the rest of thy sons that were there, O king, beholding the prowess of Bhimasena and while thus being struck by that illustrious warrior, all fled from battle."
Total so far - 8 dead, one was named after bheem.
========
Certain people that were dead get mentioned later.

Senapati (kuru prince) fight's Susarman (pro pandav warrior).
Quote:
"Senapati deeply struck Susarman in his vitals. Susarman also struck his antagonist with a lance on the shoulder-joint."
[End]
Logic - this's from the passage of the 11th day. Senapati was a brother of Duryodhan. He logically could not have lived till this date.

Susharma that was on the Pandava army.
[]
"The son of Adhiratha, of great energy, filled with rage, began from their front to strike those Pancalas, with the keen points of his shafts, singling out their leaders. Vyaghraketu and Susharma and Citra and Ugrayudha and Jaya and Sukla and Rochamana and the invincible Singhasena."
[]
==========
                                                                                        Part 2.
8th day.
Quote:
"Bhima, however, did not bear these attacks of his foes in battle. Forcibly grasping the bow with his left hand, that grinder of foes cut off, in that battle, the head, with a straight shaft, of thy son Aparajita, graced with a fine nose. Thus vanquished by Bhima, his head then dropped on the ground. Then, in the very sight of all the troops, Bhima despatched, with another broad-headed arrow, the mighty car-warrior Kundadhara to the domain of Death. Then that hero of immeasurable soul, once more aiming an arrow, sped it, O Bharata, at Panditaka in that battle."
"And the arrow killing Panditaka, entered the earth. Of undepressed soul, that hero then felled Visalaksha's head, cutting it off with three arrows. Then Bhima, in that battle, struck the mighty bowman Mahodara in the centre of the chest with a long shaft. Slain the latter fell down on the earth. Then, O Bharata, cutting off with an arrow the umbrella of Adityaketu in that battle, he severed his head with another broad-headed shaft of exceeding sharpness. Then excited with rage, Bhima, with another straight shaft, despatched Vahvasin towards the abode of Yama."
{End}
                                                        Part 3.
Quote:
"Bhima felled Vyudoroska with a sharp horse-shoe-headed arrow. Thereupon that son of thine was deprived of life. With another broad-headed arrow, well-tempered and sharp, he then felled Kundalin like a lion overthrowing a smaller animal."
"These sons of thine that were thus slain were Anadhriti, and Kundabhedin, and Virata, and Dirghalochana, and Dirghavahu, and Suvahu, and Kanykadhyaja. While falling down (from their cars), O bull of Bharata's race, those heroes looked resplendent like falling mango trees variegated with blossoms in the spring."
[End]
Total so far - 24 slain (16 on day 8, eight on day 4).
=========
Part 4;
14th day.
Who were the brother's that encircled Bheem?
[quote]
"Then the brothers Duhsasana and Chitrasena. and Kundabhedin and Vivinsati, and Durmukha and Duhsaha and Sala, and Vinda and Anuvinda and Sumukha and Dirghavahu and Sudarsana, and Suhasta and Sushena. and Dirghalochana, and Abhaya and Raudrakarman and Suvarman and Durvimochana, approaching, encompassed Bhimasena."
[end]
Comment; Sumukha is a name that was exclusively mentioned here not anywhere else, not in Adi Parva, Stri Parva etc. This kaurav brother might not have existed at all. Also sushena being alive makes no sense, he died ten day's ago.

Quote 1 (Bheem kills seven):
"The mighty son of Pandu, then, with three other keen shafts, slew the three brothers Kundabhedin and Sushena and Dirghanetra. And, again, amongst those heroic sons of thine battling with him, Bhima slew heroic Vrindaraka, that enhancer of the fame of the Kurus. And again, with three other shafts, Bhima slew three other sons of thine Abhaya and Raudrakarman and Durvimochana."
Logic - durvimochan get's another mention at the 18th day. So possibly bheem killed six not 7 cousin prince's.

Quote 2 (Bheem kills four):
"Despatched by means of his shafts thy son Vinda and Anuvinda and Suvarman to the abode of Yama. Then the son of Pandu, O bull of Bharata's race, quickly pierced in that battle thy heroic son Sudarsan. The latter, thereupon, fell down and expired."
Note; this sudarsan got mentioned in the 18th day too.
Quote 3 (one): "Then Bhimasena, excited with wrath, piercing with his shafts the very vitals of Durjaya, and his steeds and driver, despatched them of Yama's abode. Then Karna, weeping in grief, circumambulated that son of thine, who, adorned with ornaments, lay on the earth, writhing like a snake."
Note - this character (prince Durjaya) was not mentioned in Adi Parva & he is not listed later as one of the kaurav brother's. Maybe he was the son of a concubine of Dhritrashtra, another possibility is that his inclusion is an interpolation like his death.
Quote 4 (one):
"Then resisting Karna the while with his shafts, the son of Pandu quickly drove his chariot towards Durmukha. And in that moment, O king, with nine straight arrows of keen points, Bhima despatched Durmukha to Yama's abode."
"Upon Durmukha's slaughter, the son of Adhiratha mounted upon the car of that prince and looked resplendent, O king, like the blazing sun. Beholding Durmukha lying prostrate on the field, his very vital pierced (with shafts) and his body bathed in blood, Karna with tearful eyes abstained for a moment from the fight." https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07130.htm

Quote 5 (five slaughtered):
"Beholding Karna defeated by Bhimasena, five of thy sons, those uterine brothers that were great bowmen, could not, O sire, brook it. They were Durmarshana and Duhsaha and Durmada and Durdhara and Jaya. Clad in beautiful mail, all of them rushed against the son of Pandu."
"With five and twenty arrows, O king, Bhima, armed with his formidable bow, despatched all those bulls among men to Yama's abode with their steeds and charioteers. Falling down from their cars along with their charioteers."
Logic - one of these names [durmada] was killed again later on the 14th night. So this's a clerical error.

Quote 6 (six killed):
[word's of Duryodhan the guy who ended Hanuman's life]
Beholding the Suta's son turn back and flying away on foot, covered all over with the arrows of Kunti's son, Duryodhana said "Go ye quickly from all sides towards the car of Radha's son."
[End]

The identities of the brave people that were murdered:
"They were Chitra, and Upachitra, and Charuchitra, and Sarasan, and Chitrayudha, and Chitravarman. All of them were well-versed in every mode of warfare. The mighty car-warrior, Bhimasena, however, felled each of those sons of thine thus rushing against him, with a single arrow. Deprived of life, they fell down on the earth like trees uprooted by a tempest. Beholding those sons of thine, all mighty car-warriors, O king, thus slain, Karna, with tearful face, recollected the word of Vidura."
[End]

Quote 7 (seven more):
"Seven sons of thine that were thus slain were Satrunjaya, and Satrusaha, and Chitra, and Chitrayudha, and Dridha, and Chitrasena and Vikarna."
{end}
Comment - a second chitra was just mentioned.

Total - 31 or 30 or 28 or possibly 29 died today (due to Chitra's, Durjayas and Durmada's inaccuracy). It could possibly be a mistranslation.

Grandtotal - 55 [at most] have fallen so far (24 in the past days).
============
14th night.
1st batch dead;
[quote]
"Then thy sons, Durmada and Dushkarna, mounting on the same car, pierced Bhima with shafts. Then in the very sight of Karna, of Aswatthaman, of Duryodhana, of Kripa, of Somadatta, and of Valhika, the son of Pandu, that chastiser of foes, by a stamp of his foot, caused that car of the heroic Durmada and Dushkarna to sink into the earth. Filled with rage, Bhima struck with his fists those mighty and brave sons of thine, Durmada and Dushkarna, and crushed them therewith and roared aloud."
[end]
Comment - these were the only pair of brothers who were not slain due to a arrow or mace of bheem.
2nd batch slain;
[quoTe]
"They were Nagadatta, and Dridharatha, and Viravahu, and Ayobhuja, and Dridha, and Suhasta, and Viragas and Pramatha, and Ugrayayin. Beholding them Bhimasena became filled with rage. He then took up a number of arrows, each capable of bearing a great strain. Aiming at each of them one after another, he sped those arrows at them, striking each in his vital part. Pierced therewith, they fell down from their cars, deprived of energy and life, like tall trees from mountain cliffs broken by a tempest. Having with those ten shafts slain those ten sons of thine."
[End]
Logic - only nine of the brother's had their name mentioned, so maybe actually 9 were killed and not 10. Another one of them (dridha) was also killed during daytime, so maybe Bheem just killed another 8 brother's.
=====
On the 16th day another brother was mentioned, but he was not labelled a dead man at all.
[QUOTE]
"Thy son Srutakarman, O monarch, within half the time taken up by a wink of the eye, fearlessly made Satanika steedless and driverless and carless. The mighty car-warrior Satanika, however, staying on his steedless car, O sire, hurled a mace, filled with rage, at thy son. That mace, reducing thy son's car with its steeds and driver into fragments, fell down upon the Earth with great speed, and pierced it through. Then those two heroes, both enhancers of the glory of the Kurus, deprived of their cars, retreated from the encounter, glaring at each other. Then thy son, overcome with fear, mounted upon the car of Vivingsu, while Satanika quickly got upon the car of Prativindhya."
[END]
Logic;
the name srutakarman for a kaurava brother was only ever used here, nowhere else.
===
17th day.
The six who died after namard karn's defeat;
"Bhimasena then, O king, with a broad-headed arrow, struck off the head of Vivitsu adorned with earrings and head-gear, and graced with a face resembling the full moon." "With two other broad-headed arrows then, Bhima of terrible prowess took the lives of two other sons of thine in that dreadful battle. Those two, Vikata and Saha, looking like a couple of celestial youths, O king, thereupon fell down on the Earth like a couple of trees uprooted by the tempest. Then Bhima, without losing a moment, despatched Kratha to the abode of Yama, with a long arrow of keen point. Deprived of life, that prince fell down on the Earth." "Bhima, O monarch, then despatched Nanda and Upananda in that battle to Yama's abode. Thereupon thy sons, exceedingly agitated and inspired with fear, fled away, seeing that Bhimasena in that battle behaved like the Destroyer himself at the end of the Yuga. Beholding those sons of thine slain, the Suta's son with a cheerless heart once more urged his steeds of the hue of swans to that place where the son of Pandu was."
[end]
Arjuna's killing spree;
"He was then surrounded by ten heroic and foremost of warriors thy sons, all of whom were Duhshasana's juniors in age. Afflicting Arjuna with their shafts like hunters afflicting an elephant with burning brands, those heroes, with outstretched bow, seemed to dance, O Bharata, (on their cars). The slayer of Madhu then, guiding his, car placed all of them to his right. Indeed, he expected that Arjuna would very soon send all of them to Yama's presence. Beholding Arjuna's car proceeding in a different direction, those heroes rushed towards him."
"Soon, however, Partha, with a number of cloth-yard shafts and crescent-shaped arrows, cut off their standards and steeds and bows and arrows, causing them to fall down on the earth. Then with some broad-headed arrows he cut off and felled their heads decked with lips bit and eyes blood-red in rage. Those faces looked beautiful like an assemblage of lotuses. Having slain those ten Kauravas cased in golden mail, with ten broad-headed shafts endued with great, impetuosity and equipped with wings of gold that slayer of foes, Arjuna continued to proceed."
[End]

Another group falls;
[quote]
"After the slaughter of Duhshasana, O king, ten of thy sons, heroes that never retreated from battle, all of whom were great car-warriors, endued with mighty energy, and filled with the poison of wrath, shrouded Bhima with their shafts. Nishangin, and Kavachin, and Pasin and Dundadhara and Dhanurgraha, and Alolupa, and Saha, and Shanda, and Vatavega and Suvarchasas, these ten, afflicted at the slaughter of their brother, united together and checked the mighty-armed Bhimasena with their shafts. Resisted on all sides with their shafts by those great car-warriors, Bhima, with eyes red as fire with fury, looked resplendent like the Destroyer himself in rage."
"Partha, however, with ten broad-headed shafts of great impetuosity, equipped with golden wings, despatched to Yama's abode those ten Bharata princes decked with golden bracelets. Upon the fall of those ten heroes, thy army fled away in the very sight of the Suta's son, overwhelmed with the fear of the Pandavas. Then, O king, great fear entered the heart of Karna at sight of Bhima's prowess which resembled that of the Destroyer himself unto living creatures."
[end]
Last Part.
Who survived from these past seventeen day's.
[quOte]
"Thy son also, that foremost of heroes in Kuru's race, Purumitra, O king, riding on his car possessed of the effulgence of fire or the Sun, stayeth on the field, like the Sun himself shining brilliantly in the cloudless firmament."
=
"So also thy sons Sushena, armed with sword and shield, and the heroic Satyasena, are staying with Citrasena, their hearts full of joy and themselves desirous of battle. Endued with modesty, the Bharata princes Citrayudha, Srutavarman, and Jaya, Dala, and Satyavrata, and Dussala, all of whom are possessed of great might, stay on the field, desirous of battle."
[eNd]
==
18th day.
Quote 1:
"They were Durmarshana and Srutanta and Jaitra and Bhurivala and Ravi, and Jayatsena and Sujata and that slayer of foes, Durvishaha, and he called Durvimochana, and Dushpradharsha and the mighty-armed Srutarvan. All of them were accomplished in battle."
Quote 2:
"Bhima, in that battle, filled with rage, O ruler of men, made thy son Sudarsana invisible with his arrows, and smiling the while, cut off from his antagonist's trunk his head with a razor-headed arrow of great sharpness."
Quote 3:
"Thy son Sudarsana rushed against Bhimasena. Susarman and Shakuni encountered Kiritin. Thy son Duryodhana on horse-back proceeded against Sahadeva."
Quote 4: "Duryodhana, O king, and thy son Sudarsa, the only two of thy children yet unslain, were at that time in the midst of the (Kaurava) cavalry. Beholding Duryodhana staying in the midst of the cavalry." https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m09/m09027.htm
===================
Combat feats of his brother's (not duhsasan).
Veer Durmukh;
"Janamejaya of the hilly country, endued with great prowess and accomplished in encounters with the mace, hath, O king, been slain by thy son Durmukha."
[end]
Fought a guy stronger than Parshuram and Hanuman;
"That crusher of foes, thy son Durmukha, desirous of doing what was agreeable to Drona, began to resist Dhrishtadyumna. Then a terrible and a fierce battle took place, O Bharata, between the brave son of Prishata and thy son, Durmukha."
"Then Prishata's son, quickly covering Durmukha, with a shower of arrows, checked Bharadwaja's son also with a thick arrowy downpour. Beholding Drona checked, thy son Durmukha quickly rushed at Prishata's son and confounded him with clouds of arrows of diverse kinds. And while the prince of the Panchalas and that foremost one of Kuru's race were thus engaged in battle, Drona consumed many sections of Yudhishthira's host."
{End}

What did Dhrishtadyumn do after?
[Quote]
"And Yudhishthira pierced Drona with a dozen shafts, and Dhrishtadyumna pierced him with ten, and Chekitana with three."
[End]
Logic - dhrishtadyumna most likely was the victor of that fight between durmukh and him, or their is a very tiny chance that Durmukh won and that is why Dhrishtadyumn moved back to the pandav array of troops to attack guru Dron being aided by king Yudhisthir himself.
===
Prince Vikarn.
[quote]
"Citrayudha and Citrayodhin, after making a great slaughter, have both been slain in battle by Vikarna exerting himself with great prowess and displaying diverse manoeuvres of his car."
[end]
Note: The achievements & feat's of the 2 warriors he killed are not elaborated on, so i place Vikarn below and under the capability of Durmukha, Citrasen & Vivinsati.
====
Strength of prince (rajkumar) vivinsatI.
11th day Quote:
"Bhimasena pierced Vivinsati with sharp arrows. The latter, however, thus pierced, trembled not, which seemed to be highly wonderful. Vivinsati then, O monarch, suddenly deprived Bhimasena of his steeds and standard and bow. And thereupon all the troops worshipped him for that feat. The heroic Bhimasena, however, brooked not that exhibition of prowess by his enemy in battle."
"With his mace, therefore, he slew the well-trained steeds of Vivinsati. Then the mighty Vivinsati, taking up a shield (and sword) jumped down from that car whose steeds had been slain, and rushed against Bhimasena like an infuriated elephant rushing against an infuriated compeer."
[End]
==
All their names being mentioned and told to Janamejay;
"Their names, O king, according to the order of birth, are Duryodhana, Yuyutsu, Duhsasana, Duhsaha, Duhsala, Jalasandha, Sama, Saha, Vinda and Anuvinda, Durdharsha, Suvahu, Dushpradharshana, Durmarshana and Durmukha, Dushkarna, and Karna, Vivinsati and Vikarna, Sala, Satwa, Sulochana, Chitra and Upachitra, Chitraksha, Charuchitra, Sarasana, Durmada and Durvigaha."
"Vivitsu, Vikatanana, Urnanabha and Sunabha, then Nandaka and Upanandaka; Chitravana, Chitravarman, Suvarman, Durvimochana; Ayovahu, Mahavahu, Chitranga, Chitrakundala, Bhimavega, Bhimavala, Balaki, Balavardhana, Ugrayudha; Bhima, Karna, Kanakaya, Dridhayudha, Dridhavarman, Dridhakshatra, Somakitri, Anudara; Dridhasandha, Jarasandha."
"Satyasandha, Sada, Suvak, Ugrasravas, Ugrasena, Senani, Dushparajaya, Aparajita, Kundasayin, Visalaksha, Duradhara; Dridhahasta, Suhasta, Vatavega, and Suvarchas; Adityaketu, Vahvashin, Nagadatta, Agrayayin; Kavachin, Krathana, Kunda, Kundadhara, Dhanurdhara; the heroes, Ugra and Bhimaratha, Viravahu, Alolupa; Abhaya, and Raudrakarman."
"Dridharatha; Anadhrishya, Kundabhedin, Viravi, Dhirghalochana Pramatha, and Pramathi and the powerful Dhirgharoma; Dirghavahu, Mahavahu, Vyudhoru, Kanakadhvaja; Kundasi and Virajas. Besides these hundred sons, there was a daughter named Duhsala. All were heroes and Atirathas, and were well-skilled in warfare. All were learned in the Vedas, and all kinds of weapons. And, O, king, worthy wives were in time selected for all of them by Dhritarashtra after proper examination. And king Dhritarashtra, O monarch, also bestowed Duhsala, in proper time and with proper rites, upon Jayadratha."
[End]
Note: a certain individual was called "Duhsala" here (besides the sister of Duryodhan their was a brother who had that name).
A similarity can be found among other character's of the epic like Hidimva (brother-sister had same name), Uttara (sister and brother share a name again).
OTHER CONCLUSIONS I ARRIVED AT:
1) I also counted about 102 son's of Dhritrashtra with Gandhari, not counting Yuyutsu at all. So it boggle's my mind why the narrator claims they were 100 not 102. And the 102 number is something i got just from the adi parva chapter only, not counting all the brothers who died in the war but were not in adi parva.
2) Their were atleast 2 brothers named "karna" in this list, but only one had his death actually mentioned.
3) Balaki, and Bhimavega were two sons of Dhritrashtra & brother's to Suyodhana. But their deaths were never mentioned, they only ever get named when Janamejays question is answered in Adi Parva or when the swayamvar parva happened. Outside of that theyre never mentioned, leading me to believe they must never have existed in original Mahabharat.

4) The ones who Arjun killed (ten kaurava's) were not named, it is possible among them was one of the two karnas that are considered biological brothers to Duryodhan.
5) Chitravarman's death is narrated but Chitravana's is not narrated.
6) Another pair of the kaurav brothers shared a name (Mahavahu).

7) On the fourth day a prince called Viravahu died, but during the fourteenth night another kaurav brother called Viravahu also died.

8) Durmukha was without a doubt the toughest warrior of the kaurav brothers after the top three (Suyodhana, Duhsasana, Vivinsati). The fifth best is "Citrasena" but number six would be Vikarn.

9) Sudarsa was a synonym or abbreviation for "Sudarsana" [the name of the last kaurava brother].

10) Durmarshana dying twice is impossible, his deaths mentioned on the fourteenth day but again on the eighteenth day which made no sense. He also is not among the brother's present in Janamejay's question during Adi Parva. 
11] on the eighteenth day (13 died including Suyodhan), on the fourteenth day (31 died), on the fourteenth night (12 die), on the seventeenth day (27 were killed) while in days four to ten (24 got murdered). The total number of kaurav brothers (sons to Dhritrashtra) is 108, but if you add Yuyutsu it would be 109 (he did not die though). In Bori Yuyutsu killed his own brother so it would be or could be 109 brother's.
12th conclusion - Sunabha and Urnanabha find mention's in Adi Parva but their deaths are not mentioned in any Kurukshetra chapter. The episode of Sagar's Shri Krishna Tv Series (episode #165) falsely claimed that Bheem killed Sunabha on the 9th day of the war.
==
Their was also a VIJAYA among these Kouravas.
12th day:
[Quote]
"Thy sons, Durjaya, Jaya, and Vijaya, resisted Nila, and the ruler of the Kasis, and Jayatsena, three against."
[End]
His death is not mentioned (possibly he is among the fifteen random nameless humans murdered by Bhima).
=
13th conclusion:
A attempt to count.
11 on the 14th night died.
31 on the 14th day died.
Total = 42
24 more died in day's 8 and 4.
Total = 66
27 die on the 17th day.
Total = 93 brother's.
13 besides Duryodhan die on the 18th day.
Total = 106 brothers.
But if Yuyutsu/Duryodhan are both in it then its 108 instead. This number is based on the ones who died in the war (yuyutsu lived but he was still a brother) not the number that had been stated in Adi Parva's chapter by Vaisampayan.

14TH CONCLUSION;
Nakul's boy (Satanik) killed kaurav brother Duhskarna on day 6.
"He speedily cut off Dushkarna's bow with one arrow, and slew his charioteer, O sire, with two, and then pierced Dushkarna himself with seven arrows. And that spotless warrior then with a dozen sharp shafts slew all the steeds of Dushkarna that were fleet as the mind and of variegated hue. And then with another broad-headed arrow, well-aimed and capable of coursing swiftly, Satanika, excited with great wrath deeply pierced Dushkarna in the chest."
"And thereupon the latter fell down on the earth like a tree struck with lightning. Beholding Dushkarna slain, five mighty car-warriors, O king, surrounded Satanika on all sides, from desire of slaying him. And they struck the renowned Satanika with showers of arrows."
[End]
===
15th conclusion:
A extra kaurav brother (Virata) is mentioned on day 8, but since he died early i will have to add 102 not 108, so his existence makes the number 103.
Srutanta, Jaitra, Bhurivala, Ravi, Jayatsena, Sujata, Durvishaha, Srutarvan being mentioned in Shalya Parva but not in the list of 102 brothers in Adi Parva also makes it more complicated.
It adds another 8 so the number is 111 brother's.
Posted by at 10 comments:

Tuesday, May 24, 2022

Did king Sahastrarjun really beat king Ravan during a combat?

I've already made a seperate post on this blog about the age difference of these 2 men/warrior's;
Here the link has been posted above.
Now without further stalling i will begin Sahastrarjuna vs Ravan the truth.
===
According to Brahmand Puran the character of Sahastrarjun was not killed by the axe of Parshurama but rather the Pasupat Astra (which is shot from a bow) yet another weapon that both Pandav Arjun & rakshasa king of lanka (Ravana) wield.

Proof that Ravan had it as a weapon;
[Quote]
"Ravana took up the Celestial and dreadful Pashupata weapon, the increaser of fear in the Three Worlds, obtained from Rudra, by virtue of his rigid penances. Beholding this, all moveable and immoveable beings were stricken with terror and the Three Worlds, including all that was animate and inanimate, Gods and Serpents, together took refuge in their abodes under the earth."
[End]
Proof that Sahastrarjun died due to this weapon.
[quote]
"After recollecting the Pāśupata missile granted by Śiva, Bhārgava immediately slew Kārttavīrya of great power. That king who was a devotee of Datta, entered Sudarśana, the discus of Viṣṇu. His body became reduced to ashes."
[end]
Note: that as per Mahabharat the character of Sahastrarjun died either due to an axe or normal type arrow's no divine weapon was involved.
=======
In puranas a different side of Sahastrarjun is shown.
First of all he was a vassal monarch/ruler of Maheeshmati (the abode/realm had been conquered by Andhaka). If Sahastrarjun was not a vassal then why did he render assistance personally to Andhak in the invasion of Kailasa?
[Quote]
"Virocana, Bali, Bāṇa, Sahasrabāhu, Bhaji, Kujambha, Śambara, Vṛtra and others of great valour, fought there. These were defeated by the Gaṇa Vīraka in the course of the battle and split into two. At the end of the fight when many Dānavas were killed, the Gaṇas of Siddhas shouted Victory."
[End]
Logic - think about it, the man was their with 7 other's besides Emperor Andhak himself. One of these people (Sambara) was a guy that defeated Dashrath (king whose alive during Ravan's time). This implies the possibility of them (Ravan & Sahastrarjun) being contemporaries (alive during eachothers lifespan's).
Problem:
But logically it does not make sense because this quote said Banasur, Mahabali, Virochan these together fought to help Andhaka and were at his service. Andhak being the son of Hiranyaksha would be in the same generation as Prahlad, so how can 4 generation's of warriors fight together on one side and why would Andhak be the leader when his achievements are not as reputed as Mahabali's?

Virochan was supposed to already be dead, so even if age is not considered a problem here (as age never made sense in Mahabharat and Ramayana) then the problem of a dead guy being alive at a time where he logically could not be also exists as another problem.
But the major point is that Sahastrarjun lost to a Gana named Viraka (likely Nandi) & he was a vassal king dependent on Andhak.
==========
If we use Purans then this's the pecking order.
1st - Ravan
2nd - Nandin (whoever that Gana was)
3rd - Andhaka
4th - Sahastrarjun
We never ever heard of Ravan losing to any Gana.
==
Main point's on why Ravan fighting him (Sahastrarjun) made no sense.
The biggest problem with Ravan ever fighting Sahastrarjun is that their are many doubts and things that make almost no sense.

First - why would Sahastrarjun (who was a anti brahmin/hater of brahmin's) listen to Pulastya's order of giving Ravan freedom? Mahabharat said that Sahastrarjun opressed brahmins (placing his foot on their heads).

Second - in puranas the character of Sahastrarjun was killed by Pasupat Astra (parshurama in brahmanda pooran) but in Uttar Kand of Ramayana this weapon was also in Ravan's arsenal, why did he not use it then?

Third - if Ravan was defeated by a human before he lost to Rama then why was he so confident of a win against Rama (son of Dashrath) and how come he never asked any boon (from any of his idols) that would give him protection against a human warrior?

Fourth - when Parshurama (who killed Sahastrarjun) was defeated by a boy Ram (who was at most twelve years old) then why did an adult Ram get tormented by arrows of Ravan to the point where he could not defeat him in even seven days of combat? Parshuram was beaten in less than one hour.

Fifth - where was Pulastya (the guy who had Ravan released from danger) when Ram entered Ravans life as a new danger? Why didnt Pulastya ever ask Ram to spare Ravan? Why did he only interfere in the incident of Sahastrarjun?
Sixth - Parshuram told Ram that he slew all Kshatriya's in his life using the Vijaya bow of Lord Indra. So why did the same Indra have fear for Ravan if he and Parshuram were better than a guy who defeated Ravan already (that guy in question is "Sahastrarjun")?

Indra owned the vijay bow and sammohan astra (weapon that knocks out parshurama) yet he never retaliated or even attacked Sahastrarjun? So why did Indra not react when Sahastrarjun insult's and taunts him infront of Devi Sachi?
===========
FINAL POINT
Who Sahastrarjun harassed.
[Quote]
"And grown resistless by the virtue of a granted boon, he ever mounted on that car, trampled upon gods and Yakshas and saints on all sides round."
[End]
Classifying his victim's - among saint's (brahmins) their were Durvasa, Angiras, Bharadwaj and Agastya.
For the yakshas either Kuber (ravan's elder brother and enemy) & Suketu (father of Tadka).
Now onto the devas ("god's") none of them could've been Indra as he was always mentioned seperately, so it has to be gandubaaz Soorya because he never had even a fraction of the relevance that Indra did.

Overall;
Him and Ravan basically harassed the same individual's they had the same enemies (Dev, Rishi, Yaksh) so the likelyhood of them ever fighting against eachother does not appear to be possible.
Now unless you believe that Ravan was also a rishi then Sahastrarjun could not have fought/met him. So Ravan was not harrased by Sahastrarjun and Ravan was definitely not a rishi/brahmin.
===========
Lastly
I am not a Ravan fan.
I believe that the people who say "ravan was never beaten by anyone before Ram" are actually hanuman bhakts that are mad that hanuman lost to Ravan.
So to make hanuman's defeat look less embarassing they hype up Ravan. My belief is that Ramayan's best warrior was Meghanad, after that it's Indra, then either Ram or Ravan.

I think maybe Indra might have defeated Ravan but i cannot say for sure or form a conclusion yet. I I'll be doing a post on that, to decide what happened.
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Sunday, May 22, 2022

Ravan vs Vishnu.

Intro - i am using both puran's and ramayan in this post to come to conclusions, i dont like purans or believe they have any authenticity but i use them because i want to show the negative things purans will state about the fan favorite warrior's/fighters (vishnu, hanutati, parshurama etc).

Proof that Ravan actually won this time.
Quote;
Indra was conquered by means of his Aiśvarya (power and prosperity). So also Viṣṇu, the omnipresent one. By worshipping and propitiating the Liṅga, all the three worlds were controlled by him. At that time, all the groups of Suras, with Brahmā and Viṣṇu as their leaders, gathered together on the top of Mem and began their deliberation and discussion:
"We have been tormented by Rāvaṇa through his penance, very difficult to be performed (by others)."
{End}
[Full quote]
He was made the great king and ruler of Trikūṭa by Maheśa. He occupied the greatest and most excellent position (seat) among Rākṣasas. It was for testing (the enduring capacity of) the sages that he harassed them. Violence towards the sages was indulged in, O Brāhmaṇas, by Rāvaṇa who was himself an ascetic, only because he wanted to test them. Rāvaṇa who made the whole world cry and scream, became great and invincible. Thanks to the grace and favour of Śaṅkara, another creation was evolved by him.
The guardians of the worlds were conquered by that ascetic by means of his valour. Brahmā too was subdued by him only through great penance. By becoming the nectar-rayed one, he conquered the Moon, O Brāhmaṇas. Through the power of burning, the Fire-god was conquered and Īśa (himself) was conquered by lifting up Kailāsa (mountain). Indra was conquered by means of his Aiśvarya (power and prosperity). So also Viṣṇu, the omnipresent one. By worshipping and propitiating the Liṅga, all the three worlds were controlled by him.
At that time, all the groups of Suras, with Brahmā and Viṣṇu as their leaders, gathered together on the top of Mem and began their deliberation and discussion: "We have been tormented by Rāvaṇa through his penance, very difficult to be performed (by others)."
[End]

Logical explanation - vishnu went with all his comrades (including Brahma, Indra and other Sur's) to a region, they all exclaimed and let out their frustration's, one of their complaints was that they were tormented by Ravan. Before Vishnu claimed he was tormented a line was in the text that he was conquered by Ravana like Indradev too.
=============
Pashupata of Ravan vs Vishnu.
Vishnu's weakness toward it;
{quote}
"In the universe there is no being including even Brahma and Vishnu and the deities, that are incapable of being slain by that weapon."
{end}
Ravan owns Pasupat Astra;
[Quote]
"Ravana took up the Celestial and dreadful Pashupata weapon, the increaser of fear in the Three Worlds, obtained from Rudra, by virtue of his rigid penances. Beholding this, all moveable and immoveable beings were stricken with terror and the Three Worlds, including all that was animate and inanimate, Gods and Serpents, together took refuge in their abodes under the earth."
[End]

Had every divya astra known till that time period.
[quote]
"He who is a marksman of every divine missile, and an ever interdictor of Vedic-rituals."
[eNd]
==-----==
Ravan & the Sudarshan Chakra.

[quote 1]
"His body bears hundreds of welts caused when assaulted with Vishnu-disc for hundreds of times in wars with gods, and when assaulted for hundreds of times with the other assaults-missiles in other gruesome wars as well."
[end]

[Quote 2]
"Those arms had wounds made by stabbing from the pointed edges of tusks of Iraavata and fleshy shoulders smeared with diamond and hit by Vishnu chakra."
[End 2]
=---=
Detail's of the 2 mountain's Ravan lifted (third is Kailash but i exclude it).
Meru
[Quote]
"Thou art Meru amongst mountains, thou art the Moon among all luminaries of the firmament, thou art Vasishtha amongst Rishis, thou art Surya among the planets."
[End]
Logic - here it's mentioned that Shiva is like Meru among every mountain. It was chosen above Kailash, Mandara etc.

[Quote]
"Behold that excellent and bright summit of the Meru, where sits the great sire with the celestials happy in self-knowledge. And next to the abode of Brahma is visible the region of him who is said to be the really primal Cause or the origin of all creatures, even that prime lord, god Narayana, having neither beginning nor end."
"And the region of the high-souled Vishnu, by its native splendour, exceeding in effulgence the sun or fire, cannot be beheld by the gods, or the Danavas. And the region of Narayana lies resplendent to the east of the Meru, where, O child, that lord of all creatures, the self-create primal Cause of the universe, having manifested all beings, looks splendid of his excellent grace. O child, not to speak of the Maharshi even Brahmarshis have no access to that place."
[End]

Meru's importance.
[quote]
"Between these two is a globular mountain called Meru made of gold."
[end]
"There, on that mountain, O king, the celestials, the Gandharvas, the Asuras, and the Rakshasas, accompanied by the tribes of Apsaras, always sport. There Brahman, and Rudra, and also Sakra the chief of the celestials, assembled together, performed diverse kinds of sacrifices with plentiful gifts."
Sukracharya was yet another individual living on top of Meru;
[quote]
"Upon the summit of that mountain, Usanas, otherwise called the Poet, sporteth with the Daityas. The jewels and gems (that we see) and all the mountains abounding in precious stones are of Meru."
[end]
Identity of location;
[quote]
"The sun, always circumambulates Meru, as also the moon with (his) attendant constellation, and the Wind-god too. The mountain, O king, is endued with celestial fruits and flowers, and it is covered all over with mansions made of furnished gold."
[end]
The width of meru parvat.
[Quote]
"there is that monarch of mountains the golden Meru extending over a space of thirty-three thousand Yojanas. And there, O Mudgala, are the sacred gardens of the celestials, with Nandana at their head, where sport"
[End]

Another description;
[quote]
"There is a unique and kingly mountain in the midst of that range of golden mountains, which is called Mt. Meru, or Saavrni Meru."
[end]
Height of Meru:
[quote]
"Is a globular mountain called Meru made of gold. Effulgent as the morning sun, it is like fire without smoke. It is eighty-four thousand Yojanas high, and, O king, its depth also is eighty-four Yojanas. It standeth bearing the worlds above, below and transversely. Besides Meru are situated."
[end]
Logic - did namard's like parshuram, karna, bhishma, sahastrarjun, balrama etc ever do anything similarly impressive?
=====
Mandara:
[Quote]
"Pārvatī stayed behind in Mandara mountain awaiting for the return of the lord."
(End)
Logical result; he should be able to lift vishnu's entire kingdom up then, his kingdom is the abode/city of vaikuntha.

[Quote]
"Abandoning the Vaiṣṇava shrines hereof on the earth, Lord Viṣṇu too went to Mandara where the Lord of the Devas, the consort of Umā, resided."
[End]

[quote]
"And you have to search on the peak of mount Mandara, where some extensive and unsightly beings are harboured, and at places where some other beings live with odd physical features. Some of them have no ears, while some have their lips as their ears. Some are with grisly faces like iron-faced-beings while some beings, although they are single-footed, yet they are very rapid."
"While some tribals are unkillable and mighty man-eaters, some other have golden complexion, and they will be pleasant in their appearance with towering wisps. Some other tribals who live on islands budging underwater as they are raw fish eaters and they are observed upon as horrific man-tigers. Half-man and half-tiger, like mermaids."
[end]

Proving that he lifted it.
[Quote]
"Though he was able to lift up Himavat, Mandara and Meru mountains as also the Three Worlds with the Gods."
[End]
Logic - Meru is where brahma resided with Narayan as well.
He lifted a 4th mountain because Himavat & Kailash are two different ones. So total is four, Ravana lifted that many mountain's.
But at the end of the day Ravan literally lifted Vishnu, Brahma etc.
Vishnu never lifted a single mountain, and even if he did their is no record of any mountain exceeding the weight and size of Meru, Mandara etc.

Ultimate CONCLUSION;
When u consider the fact ravan didnt use a weapon but tanked over a hundred sudarshan chakras on his body, he was a wielder of pasupat astra & he lifted vishnu's abode up once, also lifted other mountain's, i dont think their is any problem in saying Ravan WAS EQUAL TO OR A BETTER WARRIOR THAN Vishnu himself.
Another possiblity - maybe vishnu's power is dependent on the number of bhakt's and devotees he had. If he has a million worshipers than his power is high but if someone takes away the lives of these devotees then the power of vishnu would also decrease.

Nonetheless this would be ravan's biggest accomplishment, defeating Vishnu himself.
I am not a fan of ravan so i dont want to be called a ravan tard or fanboy etc. I simply judge people unbiasedly based entirely on their skills as warrior's and fighters.
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