Thursday, October 17, 2024

Hanuman losing battles in Yudh Kand & Uttar Kanda

His defeats in sundara kanda will not be discussed here. But i do intend on using uttara kanda for the purpose of his bezati. I was not able to find the lava/kush incident, but it does not matter cause hanutati fans will try to bluff that he lost on purpose. With this out of the way here's the post.
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List of times when Meghanada beat hanutati:
Meghanada's first day in war.
{Quote};
"That very strong and powerful Rama the son of Dasaratha ordered ten monkey-generals to search for the whereabouts of Indrajit. Rama the scourger of his enemies ordered Hanuman, Sanuprastha, Rishabha, Angada & Nila."
Logic: Among these ten Hanuman was also included.

"Indrajit, the son of Ravana, who was skilled in the use of magic weapons, by means of his arrows with great speed, released from his most excellent of bows, arrested the impetuous outbreak of the monkeys. Those monkeys of terrific bound, whose bodies were cruelly pierced by those shafts, were unable to see Indrajit in the darkness, as the sun is obscured when veiled in clouds."
Logic; Meghanada defeats all of them & then goes for Rama in the next verse

"Indrajit, the victorious in battle, transfixed Rama and Lakshmana with those arrows that lacerated their flesh in great measure."
Logic - Here he gets called "victorious" clear indication of Meghanad being the winner.
So far hanutati lost 1 time.
Aftermath: "Indrajit, full of joy and victorious in conflict, returned to Lanka, spreading happiness among the demons."
Logic - how come hanutati did nothing when his lord/bhagvan (raam) was knocked out cold by shri meghanada? How could he let meghanada return peacefully into lanka? The only explanation is that hanuman accepted his own defeat, i mean he failed to injure meghanad but meghanad injured hanuman & he also defeated raam/laxman here, its fair to say meghanad won a 2nd time against hanuman.

Condition of hanutati after the above incident.
Quote: "These monkeys, having their eyes dilated due to fear, are signaling some words into each other's ear, terrified as they were."

Joins a group;
Hanuman, Angada, Nila, Sushena, Kumuda, Nala, Gaja, Gavaksha, Panasa, Sanuprastha and the mighty Jambavan with Sunda, Rambha, Shatabali and Prithu all these monkeys, armed with trees, reorganized their ranks, stood alert, surveyed the quarters of the sky up and down and on every side and, even if a grass stirred, they exclaimed, "It is a demon!"
Logic; this proves hanutati was like a fox who could only attack in a pack, now due to the intimidation of meghanada he is choosing to act like a bodyguard for the corpses of laxman/raam. If hanutati alone was enough (for the lankansthen this type of behavior would not occur.

Hanutati was CRYING.
{Proof}
"All the tawny eyed monkeys, who heard Rama's lament thus, allowed tears to fall from their eyes."

"Meanwhile, Vibhishana having established order in all the ranks, with mace in his hand, came quickly to Rama. Seeing him, who resembled a mass of collyrium, hastening towards them thus, all the monkeys thinking him to be Indrajit the son of Ravana, fled away."
Logic - this in itself proves who the better warrior was, how scared hanuman was of meghanada.
"It is Vibhishana who has come here. On seeing him, the foremost of monkeys seized with terror have fled, deeming him to be Indrajit, Ravana's son. You reassemble those monkeys immediately, who in fear have scattered in many directions and inform them that it is Vibhishana who has come!"
Note - it was sugriva who understood the difference between appearance in vibeeshan/meghanad. He said these words to angada, so angada is given the job of encouraging hanumana. This shows even angad was frightened of meghanad.

OTHER BATTLE:
"Indrajit the excellent demon struck all those foremost of monkeys, namely Hanuman, Sugreeva, Angada, Jambavan, Sushena, Mainda, Dvivida, Nila, Gavaksha, Gavaya, Kesari. Tearing asunder the principal monkey-warriors by maces and arrows, which were of golden colour, that Indrajit rained a multitude of showers of arrows equal to sun's rays on Rama and Lakshmana."
Words of Shri Ram; "O Lakshmana! This Indrajit, by a great missile, is throwing down our army of monkeys and tormenting us incessantly with his sharp arrows." "Let this chief of demons, who is surpassing all, be covered with a multitude of showers of arrows. This entire army of Sugreeva, whose leading warriors have fallen, looks no more charming." Thus causing the army of monkeys along with Rama and Lakshmana to become despondent in battle, that Indrajit, getting eulogized by the demons, quickly reached the city of Lanka."
According to Ram all Vanaras were surpassed by Meghanada, every Vanar had fallen like a kutta when they faced Meghanad.
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That is 4 DEFEATS (the part where hanutati ran cause he assumed vibeeshan was meghanad is included).

Final battle.
Their was a incident where namard hanutati made an attempt to slay Meghanad or best him. As usual hanutati failed.
[Quote]
"Vibhishana told Lakshmana in the following words that while with bow upraised, Indrajit sought to kill Hanuma."
"Having seated in a chariot, Indrajit, who conquered Indra, is seeking to kill Hanuma."
"Hearing the words of Vibhishana, who was fearful to his adversaries, the great-souled Lakshmana saw Indrajit."
[End]
Point - vibeeshan feared for the life of hanuman.

What Hanutati was doing when Laxman got importance again.
[quoTe]
"This Lakshmana, who ascended Hanuma's back."
[eNd]
Logic - Hanutati challenged Meghanad for a close combat fight, when Meghanad was going to accept it then hanutati backed out of the match and chose to assist Laxman instead.

[Continuation]
"Thus speaking, he struck Lakshmana with seven arrows and Hanuma with ten excellent sharp-edged arrows."
Point; bravely countering and fighting 2 people Meghanad again proved the greater warrior, he dominated both namards of arya varth.
Hanuman as usual needs to be in a group and fight like a pack of wolves and cowards to combat one lion.
Real Last or Final encounter.
"The enraged Indrajit also struck down hundreds and thousands of monkey-chiefs by using a multitude of arrows in the battle-field. Stretching his bow to a circle, that enraged Indrajit the conqueror in battle, exhibiting supreme agility, began to kill the monkeys. Thus being killed by steel arrows, those monkeys of terrible prowess sought refuge in Lakshmana, as people would take refuge in Brahma the Lord of Creation."

[quote]
"Indrajit, filled with martial anger, struck Vibhishana in his auspicious face, with three arrows. Having struck Vibhishana, the leader of demons, with three arrows, Indrajit struck all those monkey chiefs with a single arrow each."
[end]
Logic - hanutati was one among those chief's.
Nowhere is it mentioned that hanu retaliated or fought back. So it's the FIFTH victory that he had against him.

Meghanad wins against him outside of ramayana too [even when a group helps hanuman].
Quote:
"He hid himself in the sky and shot the nāgāstra given to him by Śiva against the enemy. That arrow rendered Lakṣmaṇa, Sugrīva and all the monkeys unconscious. At that time Vibhīṣaṇa was away to arrange for food. When Vibhīṣaṇa returned with food he was taken aback to find Lakṣmaṇa and others lying in an unconscious condition. Rāma was informed about the matter and when he came to the battle-ground and saw Lakṣmaṇa, Sugrīva, Hanūmān and all the others lying there unconscious he lost self-confidence for a short while and remarked that it was all the result of his having put faith in Vibhīṣaṇa, Rāvaṇa’s brother whom he had put in charge of the battlefield."
Logic; According to this purana besides raam/vibeeshan all others were swooned or in states akin to near-death. So all were defeated by Meghanada.
Again hanutati loses:
Quote 1
"Indrajit, exploiting the situation shot Brahmāstra against Lakṣmaṇa under cover of the clouds. Lakṣmaṇa, Sugrīva and others fainted."
Complete 1
Quote 2
"Indra appeared, gave to Vibhīṣaṇa Gaṅgā water in a golden vessel and asked it to be given to Hanūmān and Jāmbavān, who, though unconscious were not dead. Vibhīṣaṇa did so and both Hanūmān and Jāmbavān regained consciousness."
Completed 2
Logic - this time it was due to brahmastra not nagastra.
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Kumbhakarna ChapteR.
According to valmiki's ramayana Kumbhkarna defeats Hanuman 3 times (at minimum):
When Kumbhakarna first made his grand entry and all hanuman was able to accomplish was running away like a chutiya with a dozen gandu vanars also copying his running style like Usain Bolt.
[Passage]
"Thereafter, with the coaxing words and inferential arguments by Angada, all those fleeing commanders of monkeys turned back."
 [enD's]
Quote.
"Dvipada, Panasa and hanuma marched ahead very quickly, with their faces turned towards the battle."
[done]
Logic - Cause hanuman was among this trio that went back to fight in the war its clear he was motivated by Angada's speech so he was also among the vanaras that ran away like cowards from Kumbhakarna. 

The conflict in which both warriors hit eachother but Hanuman was the one to lose.
{start}
"Kumbhakarna struck Hanuma on his chest, as Guha (the son of Shiva) struck Krauncha mountain with his powerful javelin. That Hanuma, struck in his broad chest by the spike in that great combat, was highly perturbed and while vomiting blood from his mouth, awfully roared like the sound of thunderous clouds at the time of dissolution of the world. Looking at the perturbed Hanuma, all the troops of demons then suddenly shouted with rejoice. The monkeys, on their part, felt restless and being oppressed with fear, ran away from the battle-field."
Laxman orders the ape warriors to climb on top of kumbhkarn;
"Let the foremost of monkeys ascend well upon his body from all sides. Following the commanders of their troops, let the monkey-leaders stand, surrounding him. If we do in that way, that evil-minded demon would be harassed by the huge weight, making him to crawl on the floor and cannot kill the other monkeys."
Logic - Yes hanutati was not the BEST vanara, but he is among their top 10 warrior's, so he should be considered 1 of the "foremost" but angada was unconscious during this moment. And sugreev should be absent cause the army does not want to risk him getting captured.
So this moment could be used to show hanuman's defeat but not sugriva or angad losing.

Kumbhkarn fought vanaras;
"Kumbhakarna, when climbed upon by the monkeys, was enraged and shook them off with violence, as a vicious elephant would shake off its mahout. Seeing the monkeys shaken down, Rama on his part understanding that he was enraged, jumped up speedily towards the demon."

Bonus defeat - If hanuman was willing to protect Sugreev from Kumvakarna's spike then what excuse could he possibly have for not doing anything to save sugreev after kumbhakarna took him prisoner? Clearly hanuman was afraid.
Conclusion: So 4 losses to shri kumvakarna.
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HANUMAN LOSING IN OTHER SOURCES.
Kumbhkarna's action;
{defeat of hanutati}
"Kumbhakarṇa regained consciousness and from anger struck with a club Māruti who fell to the ground unconscious. He picked him up with his arm encircling him like a serpent, like an elephant picking up something with his trunk, and put him under his arm."
{Vibeeshan to Ram}
"I intend to release them, so they will not be taken to Laṅkā. Hanumat, who is held by Kumbhakarṇa with his very strong arm, must be freed without his reaching Laṅkā, Raghūdvaha. Master, without Sugrīva, Bhāmaṇḍala and Hanūmat, our army is without soldiers, as it were."
MORE EVIDENCE FOR KUMVAKARNA'S WIN;
"Hanumān, who had grown to huge proportions, came down on the ground and stood firmly in front of Kumbhakarna. He smashed him on the breast with a mountain peak and the Rākṣasa reeled back in pain. Quickly recovering, the Rākṣasa struck Hanumān a terrible blow with his pike. The monkey was rendered almost senseless and he fell back, vomiting blood. Seeing Hanumān thrown down, the Rākṣasa forces cheered loudly and the monkeys fled in fear. Nīla quickly came forward and rallied the troops."
Logic - obviously the character who did more damage was Kumvakarna, the one who felt more pain was hanutati, so Kumvakarna defeated hanuman fairly according to this variation as well.

Hanubhakts claim 'our hanuman said he could grow to a bigger size and end or squash kumbhkarna very easily'.
MY DEBUNK;
[Quote]
"Indra’s younger brother Viṣṇu has been sent by Devas due to the words of the Earth. O my heroic friends, he is already scorched by my valour. I do not mind him at all."
Note - just cause Kamsa said it or bragged does that mean it really happened? Had kamsa defeated vishnu or even injured him (as he claimed "vishnu is scorched by me")? As far as i can tell their is no line in the puranas which reference vishnu fighting or meeting kamsa.

Conclusion; So just because Hanuman claims that he can grow to a size more massive than kumvakarna or that he can defeat kumbhakarna that does not make his claim a fact. Valmiki could not even read the minds of people so how can he know a internal thought of a character in the war? So it is doubtful whether these were the true thoughts of hanuman at all.
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List of OTHER warrior's beating hanumana.
Ravan did a OPM (1 punch man saitama) vs hanuman;
"The powerful Ravana, enraged, his eyes red with fury and whirling his fist with force knocked it down violently on Hanuma's chest. Under the shock, Hanuma reeled once again. Seeing that mighty Hanuma exhausted, Ravana turned his chariot towards Nila."

Failure to check Ravan's javelin.
{quote}
"Hanumat, Nala, Bhāmaṇḍala, Virādha, and others struck it as it fell with their own weapons. Despising the strength of their weapons, like a rogue-elephant a goad, it fell on Lakṣmaṇa’s breast like submarine fire into the ocean. Pierced by it, Lakṣmaṇa fell on the ground and a great cry."
Tamas Astra incident exist's but it isn't worth elaborating. The point is even during incidents where hanuman combines his power with others he still failed against ravan.
This's not from 'Uttara Kanda' but it is from Padma Purana.
Suratha's victory vs him:
He fixed the Rāma-missile (i.e. the missile presided over by Rāma) on his bow, and said these words  “O best monkey (now) you are bound.”
Hanuman admits his loss;
To the king Hanūmat said "O king, what do I do now? You have bound me with the missile of (i.e. presided over by) my master, and not with any ordinary one. I respect it O king, take me to your city. That abode of kindness, my master, will come and release me."
Shatrooghan's opinion:
"You have done a great feat that you have bound the son of Wind (i.e. Hanūmat). You have overthrown even the great hero Puṣkala and so also my other very mighty and brave warriors in the battle."
Akampana Parva.
"Seeing that rocky peak shattered in the air by the demon's arrows and falling in pieces, Hanuman became mad with anger. Then, the highly enraged Hanuman began to run with great strides, breaking down the trees by his strength and tearing up the earth with his feet. Hanuman struck down elephants as also who rode upon them and charioteers with their chariots and the terrific infantry of demons."
Logic: here hanuman took his frustration out against innocent animals that did not injure or touch him or seetha but still he targets them, cause his rock attack was countered by akampana, this's the sign of a salty butthurt and frustrated loser.

"With fourteen sharp arrows that tore the flesh, that Akampana pierced the highly valiant Hanuman. Riddled with sharp-pointed shafts, that warrior Hanuman appeared like a mountain on which a number of plants shooted up."
Comment - Akampan injures hanutati not only once but a total of 14 occasion's, it can be seen as him overpowering hanuman but not defeating him.

POINT; Yes hanutati killed akampana, but this incident is worth bringing up as a anti hanuman incident, because of the reasons (he was injured 14 times, he took his rage out on innocent animals after he failed). Akampana put up as impressive of a resistance against hanuman as king porus did against alexander.

So clearly Hanuman was not a undefeated fighter at all. The reality his devotees have to accept is that sisupal, duryodhan, sakuni & ulook (the son of sakuni's wife) were superior to hanuman.

14 times hanutati was beaten by his enemies (not counting before the lankan war or after uttara kanda).

Monday, August 26, 2024

Kumbhkarna Puran

Intro; 2 sources will be used, Mahabharat and Ramayana.
The intentions behind this post are to create an article which can be used as a debating resource by myself & others that have interest in the story of Ramayan.
One warrior that gets downplayed, underestimated, underrated, ignored, sidelined, or misportrayed in popular fanfiction presented on television screens is Kumbhkarn, one of Ravan's brothers.

Part 1 will discuss the battles kumvakarna had against devas & anyone before the lankan war. Part 2 will detail his achievements against only vanaras. Part 3 is about his duel vs raam/laxman.
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PART 1)
Against Yama:
1-"He is the powerful Kumbhakarna, the son of Visravasa. He conquered Yama and Indra in battle. There is no other demon, corresponding to the size of his body."

2-"Seeing that demon of terrific eyes who could not be destroyed by Yama the lord of death the monkeys ran away."

3-"Anyone who even stands before me, the god of death, holding forth a weapon in a great battle here, is venerable. What to tell about a person who bestows battle on me?"
Quotes for his battle against Indra.
1st:
"Seeing that demon of terrific eyes who could not be destroyed either by Indra the lord of celestials or by Yama the lord of death or by Varuna the god of water, the monkeys ran away."
2nd:
"Indra also gets frightened of me, having a mountain-sized body wielding a sharpened pike, having pointed tusks and even as I roar. Without using a javelin or a mace or a sword or sharp arrows, I myself, on getting excited, can kill even Indra, with my bare hands."
3rd
"That Mahendra wielding a thunder-bolt was enraged and struck Kumbhakarna with his weapon of the white thunderbolt. The great souled Kumbhakarna struck by Indra's thunderbolt was quite agitatated at it and roared loudly with anger. Enraged as he was on Mahendra, the mighty Kumbhakarna then pulled out a tusk of Airavata, Indra's elephant & struck it into Indra's chest."
"That Devendra, tormented by the hit of Kumbhakarna, was burning with rage. The celestials, Brahmanical sages and demons were suddenly aggrieved. Even Indra with his people went to the abode of Brahma the Lord of creation."
4th
"He is the powerful Kumbhakarna, the son of Visravasa. He conquered Yama and Indra in battle. There is no other demon, corresponding to the size of his body."
5th:
"Even the powerful Indra, the lord of celestials, who mounted Airavata the elephant and accompanied by all celestials, did not ever stand before me in battle."
6th:
"O brave demon! You are telling that while you show your prowess, the heroes like Indra and others feel unbearable; it is true. Just now, I have seen your prowess."

Uttar Kanda version;
Kumvakarna's involvement in the battle against Indra & other devas.
[Quote]
"And the wicked Kumbhakama, brandishing weapons of every kind, came there, O King, unaware with whom the conflict was taking place; using his teeth, his feet, his hands, lances, picks, mallets or anything whatsoever in order to assail the Gods in his fury. Having attacked the formidable Rudras, it went ill with that Ranger of the Night, who, in an instant, was riddled with wounds; and the army of the Rakshasas, hard pressed by the Gods, assisted by the Hosts of Maruts and armed with every weapon, were completely routed and, in the struggle, some fell on the earth mutilated and palpitating, whilst others remained clinging to their mounts."
Next quote; "Meantime Dashagriva, seething with anger on seeing his army entirely overthrown by the Gods, hurled himself with one bound into that sea of warriors, slaying the Celestials in the fight and challenging Shakra himself."
The lines ''hard pressed by the gods" & "it went ill with that ranger of the night" {other word for Rakshasa/daitya} & "seeing his army entirely overthrown" clearly hint at the fact that (at least according to Uttara Kanda) the devtas/rudras defeated Kumbhkarna. Of course because this paragraph comes from Uttara Kanda its reliability is disputed/debatable.

Cause in Uttara Kanda the antagonist Ravan was vulnerable to getting killed by a character called Yamraaj. Yet according to Yuddh Kanda the character of Kumbhkarna was immune to death against Yamraaj.

Cross References.
Word of Ravan again;
"Earlier, together with you I conquered the celestials in a battle between the celestials and demons. You also conquered them."
Note - Here when Ravan said 'together with you' he was talking to more than just 1 single character, he was actually adressing a group of his courtier's, ministers, friends & servants. In much simpler terms he said that "all of us together defeated the devas" the claim "together with you" was not a reference to Kumbhakarna alone.

Ravan believed he could only annex Indra through the support of Kumbhkarn (that's probably the way he waged war against the devtas before):
"O Kumbhakarna! Now that you are dead, how can I conquer Indra the lord of celestials?"

Vibeeshan's quote hints at a Indra vs Kumvakarna duel.
{Begin}
"Kumbhakarna, my elder brother born after Ravana, who is valiant and highly powerful, has enough strength to fight against Indra in battle."
{completE}
Comment - Parenthesis text (lord of celestial's) was in the way so it has been deleted by me. This line does not prove he defeated indra but rather that he could compete with/duel vs indra.

Besides the devas he had other opponents but they do not receive any worthwhile attention in Ramayana. Kumbhkarn also had many off-screen battles against danavas but none are described in great detail at all.
So a theory has to be made here, its possible the danavas he had beaten were Maya (father to Mandodari) or Madhu (cause he was labelled the Danavendra of that era).
Quote:
devadaanava darpahaa = who humbles the pride of the celestials and demons

Gandharva Yudh.
Quote;
[etena = by him; sahasrashaH = thousands of;] [yakSaaH = a class of demi-gods; bhujangaaH = serpent-demons; pishitaashanaashcha = ogres; gandharva vidyaadhara pannagaashcha = celestial musicians; celestial artistes & kinnaras yudhi = in battle.

It's commonly believed that Kumbhakarna was able to scare BRAHMA (from the tridev club) as much as i would like for that to be the truth (so their could be villains outside of the purans that could beat the tridevs) its actually a mistake by a translator.
Quote:
vitatraasa = was frightened;
Screenshot:
Logic This's from a authentic dictionary with credible information.

Not just the danavs but even the asuras were defeated by him.
[quote]
bahushaH = for several times; prativyuuhya = attacking; devaah = the celestials; asuraaH = and demons; daivaasureSu yuddheSu = in battles between celestials and demons nirjitaaH = were defeated tvayaa = by you
Theory; It is possible that asuras who were his victims (they lost but were not killed) are "Bali" (the vishnu-bhakt) or "Vana" (father of naraka). Cause Uttara Kanda says he married the sister of Vana who is Bali's duaghter.

Also cause Bali had no mention of being involved in a relevant incident after Ramayana it is possible he died before Mahabharat. But i doubt his killer was Kumbhakarna. Unless the indra (who vibeeshan claimed LOST vs Kumbhakarna) was actually Bali (since he got promised Indra's position).
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PART 2
1st] Slew three vanar elites.
Quote;
"Kumbhakarna only laughed at them and began to eat them up. And he devoured those foremost of monkeys known by the name of Chala, and Chandachala, and Vajravahu. And beholding that fearful act of the Rakshasa, other monkeys were frightened and set forth a loud wail of fear."
[End]
Logic - hanuman claim's that everyone in Sugriva's circle/council or vicinity is equal to hanuman or above hanuman, so my belief is that kumbhkarna killed 3 Hanumans as they were Hanuman's equal in battle power. They did nothing to prove they were stronger so i can't place Vajrabahu, Chandachala & Chala as individuals stronger than him. But its fair to consider them to be at least equal to hanutati.

Quote; "As directed by Raghavana, Neela the commander-in-chief and the foremost of the monkeys, ordered the monkey-troops suitably. Then, Gavaksha, Sharabha, Hanuma and Angada looking like mountains, reached the gate, taking the mountain-tops."
Logic; hanutati's rank was below Nila's. Mahagandu hanuman followed the orders of Neela.

2nd]
Kumbhkarn vs other vanaras.
Quote;
"Looking at the perturbed Hanuma, all the troops of demons then suddenly shouted with rejoice. The monkeys, on their part, felt restless and being oppressed with fear, ran away from the battle-field. Thereupon, cheering up the army and stopping them, the mighty Neela then hurled a mountain-top on the intellectual Kumbhakarna.
Seeing that mountain-top befalling on him, Kumbhakarna then struck it with his fist. By that strike of the fist, that mountain-top was burst into pieces and fallen down on the ground, with sparks of fire and blaze. The five excellent monkeys, Rishabha, Sharabha, Neela, Gavaksha and Gandhamadana marched ahead quickly towards Kumbhakarna. Those five mighty monkeys struck the large-bodied Kumbhakarna from all sides, with crags, trees, palms of their hands, feet and fists in battle.
Perceiving those blows merely as the senses of touch, Kumbhakarna was not at all perturbed. He enfolded the greatly agitated Rishabha in his arms. Squeezed by Kumbhakarna's arms, the awful Rishabha, the foremost among the monkeys, fell down with blood coming out of his mouth. Then, in battle, the enraged Kumbhakarna, the enemy of Indra, beating Sharabha with his fist and Neela with his knee, struck Gavaksha with a palm of his hand and struck Gandhamadana violently with his feet. Perturbed by the blows given by Kumbhakarna, those monkeys being moistened with blood, were bewildered and fell down on the ground, like chopped off Kimsuka trees. Seeing those mighty chief commanders of monkeys falling down on the ground, thousands of monkeys ran towards Kumbhakarna."

Victory vs Angada;
"Seeing the monkeys defeated in that great battle, Angada the son of Indra, ran rapidly towards Kumbhakarna. Taking a large mountain-top, Angada, roaring repeatedly and frightening all the demons following Kumbhakarna's heels, hurled the mountain-top on Kumbhakarna's head. Struck on the head with that mountain, that Kumbhakarna, Indra's adversary, with a great rage, was excited and then ran rapidly towards the wrathful Angada. Frightening all the monkeys with his great roar, the mighty Kumbhakarna hurled his spike at Angada with anger. Knowing that the spike is going to fall on him, the mighty Angada, the chief of the monkeys, who was skilled in war-fare, avoided it with his alacrity. Jumping up Angada struck on Kumbhakarna's chest, with the palm of his hand. Thus beaten with anger by him, Kumbhakarna resembling a mountain, became giddy. Getting his consciousness, that mighty demon threw down Angada by tightening his fist with a scorn. Angada fell down unconscious. When that Angada the foremost among the monkeys fell down unconscious on the ground, Kumbhakarna ran towards Sugreeva, taking that spike in his hand."
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First victory against Hanutati:
His roar & entrance was all that was needed to scare Hanuman to the point where Hanuman fled like a rat despite having multiple vanaras with him.
Raam's word
[start]
"He alone with a huge body here on this earth, is appearing like a solitary meteror, by seeing whom all the monkeys are running away hither and thither."

"The highly enraged Kumbhakara devouring the monkeys on is way, is running towards us. Even on merely seeing Kumbhakarna, the monkeys have now fled away. How can the monkeys check him, who is thus enraged in battle?"

QuotE.
"Kumbhakarna emitted a roar, making the sea to reverberate, causing the mountains to quake and drowning the thunder-claps, as it were. Seeing that demons of terrific eyes who could not be destroyed either by Indra the lord of celestials or by Yama the lord of death or by Varuna the god of water, the monkeys ran away."
[Quote]
"Dvipada, Panasa and hanuma marched ahead very quickly, with their faces turned towards the battle."
[done]
Logic - Cause hanuman was among this trio that went back to fight in the war its clear he was motivated by Angada's speech so he was also among the vanaras that ran away like cowards from Kumbhakarna.

[Passage]
"Thereafter, with the coaxing words and inferential arguments by Angada, all those fleeing commanders of monkeys turned back."
[enD's]

Other incident;
"Seeing that slayer of his foes on the royal high way, that monster as high as the peak of a mountain, those monkeys stationed outside the city, as also their leaders, were frightened suddenly. Some gained refuge in Rama who affords protection, some fell down tottering, some fled away perturbed in all directions and some others lay on the ground, confounded with fear. Seeing that colossus appearing like a great peak, having a diadem who seemed to touch the sun with his brilliance, the monkeys were seized with terror and had grown immensely in size, fled hither and thither."
It's a scene which happen's before kumbhakarna talked to Ravan. Prior to the 66th chapter.

Later battle;
"The heroic Rama, enraged with red-hot eyes, as though he was scorching the enemy with his looks, walked with speed, causing delight to all the leaders of the monkey-troops, who were tormented with the fear of Kumbhakarna and quickly marched towards the demon."
=
2nd victory against hanumana;
[Quote]
"Staying in the sky, Hanuma showered mountain-tops, rocks and various types of trees on Kumbhakarna's head. The mighty Kumbhakarna broken those mountain-tops and shattered the torrent of trees with his spike. Then, taking the dreadful spike in his hand, Kumbhakarna ran towards that terrific army of monkeys. Taking a mountain-peak in his hands, Hanuma stood in front of the approaching Kumbhakarna. The enraged Hanuma struck with violence Kumbhakarna, who was endowed with a magnificent body and looking like the most elevated mountain. Thus attacked by Hanuma, Kumbhakarna was stumbled with a sprinkling of blood and with his limbs succulent with flesh. Holding firmly the spike, which was bright as lightning and looking like a blazing mountain-peak, Kumbhakarna struck Hanuma on his chest, as Guha (the son of Shiva) struck Krauncha mountain with his powerful javelin. That Hanuma, struck in his broad chest by the spike in that great combat, was highly perturbed and while vomiting blood from his mouth, awfully roared like the sound of thunderous clouds at the time of dissolution of the world. Looking at the perturbed Hanuma, all the troops of demons then suddenly shouted with rejoice. The monkeys, on their part, felt restless and being oppressed with fear, ran away from the battle-field."
[Ending]

3rd victory against hanuman is a indirect one. Based on my analysis of events and reasons. It is when Sugrīva got captured by him then it was a victory of kumvakarna against all vanars because of various different reasons. First of all kumbhkarna did it in front of hanuman, the second one is that hanuman expressed his desire to try and save Sugrīva but understood he himself was incapable. So he backed off.
I know hanubhakts won't agree but I have a easy debunk to their arguments. A excuse like "hanuman did not want to save Sugrīva because it is disgraceful for a king to be saved by a minister" is lame. Cause Raam was also a king (but in exile) he recieved help from a minister (hanuman) when it comes to searching for seetha.

Hanuman himself helped Sugrīva by looking for the whereabouts/location of seetha so that the promises (made by Sugrīva to Raam) can be fulfilled. So if he is willing to help in a situation like that then it makes no sense why he wouldn't aid Sugrīva when his life is in danger unless the obvious choice (hanuman was afraid of Kumbhakarna).
=
4th incident - It is a possibility that hanutati was among the vanar leaders that tried to climb on kumbhkarna but were shaken off.
Word's of laxman;
"Let the foremost of monkeys ascend well upon his body from all sides. Following the commanders of their troops, let the monkey-leaders stand, surrounding him. If we do in that way, that evil-minded demon would be harassed by the huge weight, making him to crawl on the floor and cannot kill the other monkeys."
Logic - Yes hanutati was not the BEST vanara, but he is among their top 10 warrior's, so he should be considered 1 of the "foremost" i do not believe angada was in that group (which climb on kumbhakarna). The reason is angad was unconscious at the moment & sugreev should be absent too because the army at this point already risked losing the war cause he got captured briefly. So they would not risk letting their king get so close to kumbhakarna this time.
Deeds committed by vanaras;
"Hearing those words of that intelligent Lakshmana, those monkeys were rejoiced and mounted on the body of Kumbhakarna. Kumbhakarna, when climbed upon by the monkeys, was enraged and shook them off with violence, as a vicious elephant would shake off its mahout. Seeing the monkeys shaken down, Rama on his part understanding that he was enraged, jumped up speedily towards the demon and took an excellent bow."
Result is that kumbhkarn wins again.

Power difference/comparison with Hanuman:
"As the illustrious Kumbhakarna did not waken from his slumber despite those great sounds, all troops of demons seized hold of bars, pestles and maces towards him."
"Then, the cruel demons struck that sleeping Kumbhakarna on his chest with mountain-tops, pestles, maces, hammers and their fists."
"Even with all their strength, the demons could not stand upright before the breathing winds of Kumbhakarna, the demon."

Foot soldier's damaged Hanuman;
"That Hanuma, then being beaten with sticks and fists by the cruel demons, was dragged to the vicinity of Ravana. Then, recognizing that Hanuma, tied with barks of trees and ropes."
Hanuman got dragged around like a toy: "That Ravana, who was endowed with an extraordinary energy, saw Hanuma the foremost of monkeys, being dragged hither and thither by demons."
Clearly Hanuman was tied up by ordinary wood, trees & ropes. I think if Kumbhkarn was in his place then he could easily get rid of such low level restraints.
=
Hanubhakts claim 'our hanuman said he could grow to a bigger size and end or squash kumbhkarna very easily'
MY DEBUNK;
[Quote]
"Indra’s younger brother Viṣṇu has been sent by Devas due to the words of the Earth. O my heroic friends, he is already scorched by my valour. I do not mind him at all."
Note - just cause Kamsa said it or bragged does that mean it really happened? Had kamsa defeated vishnu or even injured him (as he claimed "vishnu is scorched by me")? As far as i can tell their is no line in the puranas which reference vishnu fighting or meeting kamsa.

Conclusion; So just because Hanuman claims that he can grow to a size more massive than kumvakarna or that he can defeat kumbhakarna that does not make his claim a fact. Valmiki could not even read the minds of people so how can he know a internal thought of a character in the war? So it is doubtful whether these were the true thoughts of hanuman at all.

Sugrīva lost (in MB);
"And then, as if roused from his torpor by that blow, Kumbhakarna stretching forth his arms seized Sugriva by main force. And beholding Sugriva dragged away by the Rakshasa, the heroic son of Sumitra, that delighter of his friends, rushed towards Kumbhakarna."
As per Mahabharat king Sugrīva failed to injure Kumvakarn but according to Ramayana he succeeded in wounding the giant but according to both sources Sugrīva still loses the fight between them.
[Begin]
"Uplifting and tightly holding a mountain-top, the mighty Sugreeva ran towards the sturdy Kumbhakarna with speed. Seeing that Sugreeva coming rapidly towards him, Kumbhakarna, with all his limbs braced, stood facing the king of monkeys."
{BREAK}
"Sugreeva, firmly holding the mountain, hurled it quickly on him. He struck Kumbhakarna's chest by that mountain, which was as strong enough as Indra's thunderbolt. Soon after falling on his broad chest, that mountain was crushed to pieces. Then, the monkeys were suddenly distressed. The troops of demons roared with rejoice. Struck by the mountain-top, that Kumbhakarna was enraged and roared with his mouth wide open with anger. Holding firmly the spike, which was emitting a flash of lightning, he hurled it to kill Sugreeva, the king of monkeys and bears."
(HANUTATI STOPPED THE SPIKE)
"Uprooting a crest from Malaya mountain standing in the vicinity of Lanka and approaching Sugreeva, he struck him with it. Struck by the mountain-top in battle, that Sugreeva fell unconscious on the ground. Seeing him falling unconscious on the ground in battle, the demons were exceedingly pleased and cried out loudly. Seizing hold of that Sugreeva having wonderful and terrific prowess in battle, that Kumbhakarna took him away, as an impetuous wind takes away a cloud. Lifting up Sugreeva appearing like a huge cloud in the battle-field and marching forward, Kumbhakarna shone like Mount Meru, distinguished by its very high and formidable peak. Then, being praised in the battle-field by the demons for having seized hold of Sugreeva and hearing the sounds of the celestials who were wondering at the seizure of Sugreeva, Kumbhakarna the valiant chief of demons, sallied forth.
[donE]
Sugrīva broke his nose, ribs and teeth.
Quote;
"Thus thinking, Sugreeva tore asunder Kumbhakarna's ears by his nails as also nose by his teeth and ribs by his feet. Torn asunder with teeth and nails by Sugreeva, that Kumbhakarna with his ears and nose deprived and his limbs moistened with blood, was subdued with rage, threw Sugreeva down on the floor and crushed him."
[Complete]

Still he got crushed by kumbhkarna so kumvakarna had the last laugh.
Evidence:
"Crushed down on the floor by that terrific Kumbhakarna and struck by the demons, Sugreeva moved with speed like a ball towards the sky and got united with Rama."

What kumvakarna said to Raam "You need not treat me with contempt, as I am deprived of my ear and nose. To me, there is no agony even indeed a little, for having lost the ear and the nose."
Point; he felt no pain from Sugrīva's achievement.
=
PART 3)
Magical power.
1] Regrowing of limbs.
[quote]
"But as soon as the two arms of the Rakshasa were thus cut off, double that number of arms soon appeared on his person. Sumitra's son, however, displaying his skill in weapon, soon by means of similar arrows cut off those arms also, each of which had seized a mass of stone. At this, that Rakshasa assumed a form enormously huge and furnished with numerous heads and legs and arms."
[end]

Other abilities:
Weapons came out of his mouth like fire is released from a dragon's mouth.
[Quote]
"The demon with his very sharp teeth, rained spikes on the monkeys, like Yama, the god of death, risen to power at the end of the world-cycle."

Versatility.
Kumbhkarwas an archer too.
[Start]
"If Rama today survives even after facing the rapid blows of my fists, then my flood of arrows will drink the blood of Rama."
Durability.
1] Withstood attack of king Sugriva.
[Quote]
"that high-souled king of the monkeys swiftly approaching the Rakshasa, violently struck him on the head with the trunk of a Sala tree. And though the high-souled Sugriva always prompt in action broke that Sala tree on the head of Kumbhakarna, he failed to make any impression on that Rakshasa."
[End]
Logic - don't forget how much blood got shed from Vali's body due to Sugriva's attacks as per Kishkinda Kandam.

Sugriva vs Vali:
"Vali and Sugriva rushed to the encounter, fighting with Sala and Tala trees and stones. And they struck each other down on the earth. And leaping high into the air, they struck each other with their fists. And mangled by each other's nail and teeth, both of them were covered with blood."
Logic; Unless u believe Vali was covered with Sugriva's blood instead of his own u have to admit Kumbhkarn's durability was better than Vali's.

Arrows that prove to be the mrityu of VALI failed against kumbhakarna:
[quoTe]
"Those arrows, which chopped off the Sala trees and killed Vali the foremost of monkeys, could not torment Kumbhakarna's body which was like a thunderbolt. Sucking those arrows with his body, as mountains suck up torments of water, that Kumbhakarna, flourishing his hammer with terrible speed, hindered the tremendous speed of Rama's arrows."
=
Laxman vs Kumbhakarna (only ramayana not other sources).
Quote:
"Immediately, Lakshmana the son of Sumitra, the annihilator of the foe's army and conqueror of the cities of adversaries, commenced the battle with a rage. The valiant Lakshmana pierced seven arrows into the body of Kumbhakarna. He took some more arrows and released them too. Tormented by that weapon of Lakshmana, that demon destroyed it completely. Thereupon, the aggressive Lakshmana was enraged. Then, Lakshmana covered the shining and charming golden armour of Kumbhakarna with his arrows, even as the wind would make an evening-twilight cloud completely disappear. Kumbhakarna, looking like a mound of collyrium, tormented by the arrows, decked with gold, shone like the radiant sun with its rays screened by clouds.
After this he has a conversation and laxman is pushed aside.
Quote.
"Hearing in this manner, that mighty Kumbhakarna the demon, brushing aside Lakshmana and crossing him, ran, as though he is causing an earth-quake, towards Rama."
[END]
Conclusion - though laxman did put up a decent resistance against him in the finale Kumbhakarna overcame him. Possibly the praise he granted laxman was just a sarcastic speech (kumbhkarn spoke) to catch laxman off guard so he could get a chance to throw him away like a softball.
=
Valmiki compared Kumbhkarn to Vishnu himself:
"Seeing that paramount demon, whose appearance was in the form of a mountain and looking like Lord Narayana."
Again he got compared to Vishnu: "Adorned with all ornaments to all his limbs and with a spike in his hand, that demon shone like Narayana, the all-embracing Lord, enthusiastic to take the three long strides."

According to Ramayana he was drunk before the battle occurred;
"Having drunk two thousand pitchers, Kumbhakarna prepared to set out and slightly inebriated."
His physical condition below:
nidraamada samaakulaH = but filled with an intoxicating drowsiness

Kumbhkarn's armour was heavy so it reduced his physical speed/movement.
[Begin]
"Secured with a golden armour, carrying a great load, impenetrable by weapons and as if blazing with its own splendour with flashing like lightning, Kumbhakarna shone as a king of Mountains, enveloped by clouds at sunset."
So he had a restriction (shackle holding the bulk of his power back) during his victory against hanuman/sugreev etc.
=
Incident which makes no sense.
{Quoted texT}
"They crushed his limbs under piles of heavy logs and pillars, as also maces lifted with all their strength."
Logic - how did kumbhkarn even awaken let alone fight in war after his bones were broken?

But one thing i will clear up is that he was not a machine:
"Let all the monkeys be told that it is a kind of machine, advancing forward. By knowing this, they can become fearless by now."
Note; and his body was not that of a machine controlled by ravan or a brother of ravan either, he was born a giant instead.
Its clearly explained that either Vibeeshan or Raam chose to spread a rumor that kumbhkarna is a machine so the vanars become less intimidated by his entrance.
=
Raam vs Kumvakarna [PART A]
"Thereupon, Rama, the son of Dasaratha, employing a spell called Raudra, discharged sharp arrows into Kumbhakarna's chest. Flames of fire mixed with particles of charcoal came forth from the face of Kumbhakarna, who was thus struck and who was running quickly towards Rama. That foremost among demons, struck by Rama's arrow, roaring terribly with rage, making the monkeys to run away in battle, ran himself towards Rama. Those arrows, adorned with peacock's plumes, penetrated into his chest. His mace dropped off from his hand and fell on the ground. All his weapons fell scattered on the ground. Considering himself as weaponless, that mighty Kumbhakarna then fought fiercely with his fists and arms. That Kumbhakarna, with his body struck fiercely by arrows and bathed in blood, poured forth blood, even as a mountain would pour forth a cascade. With a terrific wrath, he felt insensible with blood. He roamed about, devouring the monkeys, demons and bears. Then, that Kumbhakarna, comparable to Yama the god of death, of terrific prowess and strength, firmly holding a fearful mountain-peak, hurled it towards Rama. Wile that mountain peak was still on its way and had not yet reached him Rama, fixing together his well-known bow and arrows, split the mountain in the middle, with seven straight-going arrows. Then, Rama, the virtuous man and the elder brother of Bharata, split the large mountain-peak which was hurled by Kumbhakarna at that time, with his variegated arrows made of gold. That mountain-peak, in the form of a peak of Mount Meru, as if shining with splendour, while falling, caused two hundred monkeys to fall."
After this a tactic is devised by laxman himself.

Kumvakarna vs Raam {part B};
"Seeing the monkeys shaken down, Rama on his part understanding that he was enraged, jumped up speedily towards the demon and took an excellent bow. The heroic Rama, enraged with red-hot eyes, as though he was scorching the enemy with his looks, walked with speed, causing delight to all the leaders of the monkey-troops, who were tormented with the fear of Kumbhakarna and quickly marched towards the demon. Taking in his hand, a terrific bow with a firmly fastened cord looking like a snake and looking variegated with its crust of gold, with a quiver full of excellent arrows fastened on his back and fully restoring the monkeys to confidence, that Rama quickly marched forward."
[BREAK]
"Seeing that Kumbhakarna, the foremost of demons, having a splendour of blazing fire, Rama, the excellent of men, then stretched his bow. Enraged by the twang of Rama's bow, Kumbhakarna, the foremost of demons, not tolerating that sound, ran towards Rama."
[BREAK AGAIN]
"Rama released plumed arrows. Even after struck by them, whose speed was equal to a thunderbolt, that demon was neither shaken nor afflicted. Those arrows, which chopped off the Sala trees and killed Vali the foremost of monkeys, could not torment Kumbhakarna's body which was like a thunderbolt. Sucking those arrows with his body, as mountains suck up torments of water, that Kumbhakarna, flourishing his hammer with terrible speed, hindered the tremendous speed of Rama's arrows. Then, flourishing that hammer which was smeared with blood and which can frighten the great army of celestials, in terrific speed, that demon scared away the army of monkeys. Thereupon, taking a great missile called Vayavya, Rama hurled it on the demon. By that weapon, he chopped off Kumbhakarna's arm along with the hammer. With his arm chopped off, Kumbhakarna roared tumultuously. That Kumbhakarna's arm, identical to a mountain-peak, which was chopped off by Rama's arrow, fell along with the hammer on that army of Sugreeva and killed that regiment of monkeys.
[BREAK]
"Having an arm chopped off by the arrow like a mountain-peak chopped off by a gigantic sword, that Kumbhakarna with his another arm, pulled up a tree by its roots and then ran towards Rama the lord of men in that battle-front. By his arrow, which was made variegated by gold and furnished with a mystic spell of Indra used for charming it, Rama chopped off Kumbhakarna's remaining arm, appearing like the coil of a serpent along with his uprooted palm-tree. That Kumbhakarna's arm, which appeared like a hill, was chopped off and fell down on the ground. Wallowing hither and thither, it dashed with trees, rocks, monkeys and demons. Seeing Kumbhakarna with his arms chopped off, abruptly with a roar, coming upon him and taking two sharp arrows with a shape of a half-moon each, Rama chopped off the feet of the demon in that battle. Creating a resound everywhere in all directions, even in hill-caves, in the great ocean, in Lanka as also in the armies of monkeys and demons, Kumbhakarna's feet fell down."
https://valmikiramayan.pcriot.com/utf8/yuddha/sarga67/yuddha_67_frame.htm

Logic; raam clearly wins but it was not a fair fight from the beginning, on one side is raam who is fighting in a fresh condition vs Kumbhkarn who already fought numerous battles.
Shri Kumbhkarn would have a better chance at defeating Ram if he fought him first instead of fighting Angad initially. Kumbhkarn was injured grievously by Angad, Hanuman, Sugreev, Lakshman cause in order to defeat all 4 of them he had to suffer wounds first.
Conclusion; Kumbakarna was the underdog in his fight with Raam as it was, not fair at all. If the deaths of bhishma, karna, shalya can be classified as unfair ones, then the death of Kumvakarna was much more unfair than theirs.

Thursday, August 22, 2024

Satyaki other fact's.

=
Information besides him defeating the overrated karna/bhishma etc. Or his other battle victories.

Satyaki had superior education to almost every character, cause he was trained by 5 people who are all different.

Names of his mentors;
"That same Satyaki who, I have heard, obtained weapons from Drona and Arjuna and Krishna and Kripa and Bhishma, and who is said to be equal to the son of Krishna, is devotedly attached to the Pandava cause."
Logic; if u learned English u would know who trained him.
Satyaki had more than one son alive after day 5:
[Quote]
"If before this night passes away, I do not slay thee, that art so proud of thy heroism, with thy sons and younger brothers, provided Jishnu, the son of Pritha, does not protect thee, then let me sink into terrible hell."
[Ending]
Logic - in mausala parva he had another son making the total remainder 2 sons.
Quote.
"The dear son of Yuyudhana, with a company of old men and children and women, the righteous-souled Arjuna established on the banks of the Sarasvati."

Younger brothers were also mentioned in drona parva, since it is unlikely that they got killed by the vahika family its likely the reason for their absence (after ghatotkaca vadha) is that they were murdered by lesser known warriors (kourav brother's).
Or they're just insignificant kills of Drona/Ashwathama or possibly their deaths were not witnessed by Sanjaya but their bodies could be seen as corpses. Cause bhishma clearly did not kill them since they lasted till the fourteenth night.

Adding more to his family Satyaki's biological father was Satyaka:
"And Satyaki and Kritavarma, conversant with weapons possessed of mighty energy, well-versed in all branches of knowledge, and obedient to Narayana in everything and competent in the use of weapons, had their births from Satyaka and Hridika."
=
Astra quiver:
"Knowledge of Brahma, and high weapons, are all in him (Satyaki) of the Satwata race, as the three worlds are in Kesava. What heroes (of my army), approaching that mighty bowman, Satyaki, possessed of all those accomplishments and incapable of being resisted by the very gods, surrounded him?"
Logic - so he did have a brahmastra which could be used to combat bhishma, karna etc. And cause brahmastra is the weakness of hanuman & laxman its fair to conclude Satyaki can win against both of them too with such power.
=
Satyaki was considered a great warrior even before the Kurukshetra battle.
Pradyumna's fear of his opinion.
[Quote]
"What also, O Suta, will that lion among men, the grand-son of Sini (Saṭyaki), that great warrior, say on hearing that I have forsaken the fight?"
[Complete]
Note;

Bhishma said:
"The brave Satyaki of Madhu's race is a leader of leaders of car-divisions. Foremost among the heroes of the Vrishni race, he is endued with great wrath, and is perfectly dauntless."
Meaning - satyaki was the finest hero among all yadava's.
=
Celestial weapons that Saṭyaki actually used.
Quote;
"Beholding him then thus blazing up (like a swelling fire), king Duryodhana despatched ten thousand cars against him. But that great bowman, Satyaki, of prowess incapable of being baffled and possessed of great energy, slew with his celestial weapons all those mighty car-warriors. Having achieved, bow in hand, that fierce feat, that hero then approached Bhurisravas in battle."
[End]

[Quote]
"That son of Vrishni's race applied the Aindra weapon which that illustrious hero of Madhu's race had obtained from Vijaya. That weapon consuming into ashes that Demoniac illusion, covered Alamvusha all over with terrible shafts, like a mass of clouds covering the mountain-breast with torrents of rain in the rainy season. Thereupon the Rakshasa, thus afflicted by that hero of Madhu's race, fled away in fear, avoiding Satyaki in battle. Then the grandson of Sini, having vanquished that prince of Rakshasas who was incapable of being vanquished by Maghavat himself, uttered a loud roar in the very sight of all thy troops. And Satyaki, of prowess incapable of being baffled, then began to slay thy troops with innumerable shafts whereupon the latter fled away in fear."

Satyaki was also equipped with anjalik vaans;
"Mangled by Satwata with long shafts & calf-tooth-headed arrows & broad-headed arrows & Anjalikas & razor-faced arrows & crescent-shaped ones fled away, with blood flowing down their bodies, and themselves ejecting urine and excreta and uttering loud and diverse cries, deep as the roar of clouds."
Logic - it was the elephants who cried/fled. Ironically here he fell in the category of bhishma/karna (both failed to kill elephants).

Varunaastra;
"Beholding that terrible foe-slaughtering Agneya weapon, Satyaki, that mighty bowman, invoked another celestial weapon, the Varuna. Seeing them both take up celestial weapons, loud cries of Oh and Alas arose there. The very creatures having the sky for their element ceased to range through it. Then the Varuna and the Agneya weapons which had thus been grafted on their shafts coming against each other became fruitless."

https://sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07094.htm

Him countering the divya astras thrown at him.
15th day;
[Quote]
"Both of them loudly applauded Satyaki of unfading glory, who was thus destroying the celestial weapons of all those warriors."
[quoTe]
"Indeed, in that dreadful battle, Satyaki, by means of his own celestial weapons, duly resisted all those celestial weapons aimed at him by those illustrious warriors."
Note - those warriors were karna, drona, kripa & suyodhan. So clearly satyaki was not vulnerable to divya astras.
=
Praise given to him.
"Others there are tigers among men, equal in might to a thousand Akshauhinis, such as Satyaki and Bhimasena, and the twin brothers of mighty strength."
Logic - i bet 1 crore vanaras like hanuman would be inferior to satyaki alone.

His incredible achievement which (apart from sri krishna) nobody else did:
"That host consisting of panic-stricken combatants and elephants and steeds, slaughtered on all sides by Satyaki with his shafts repeatedly turned round, and wandered hither and thither as if afflicted with the chilling blasts of winter. We saw not foot-soldiers or car-warriors or elephants or horsemen or steeds that were not struck with Yuyudhana's arrows. Not even Phalguna, O king, had caused such a carnage there as Satyaki, O monarch, then caused among those troops. That bull among men, the dauntless grandson of Sini, endued with great lightness of hand and displaying the utmost skill, fighteth, surpassing Arjuna himself."
How it does make sense even if arjuna killed 7 aukshounis on day 14 and satyaki killed 7 point 1 or a total 8 aukshounis.
Because the kourav army was bigger than what is normally believed (11 aukshounis).
Sanjaya said that their existed over 6 million protector's of just elephant's and chariot's;
"They that protected the wheels of the cars and they that protected the elephants, numbered full six millions."
Proof can always be found by those that are determined.

15 aukshouni = 3,280,500
Total kourav army was over 6 million (before karna's aukshouni from anga desh comes to join the war).

Tuesday, August 20, 2024

Who broke the rules of war 1st?

Rules are described/narrated in the bhishma parva day 1 or before in that parva.
Quote:
"Then the Kurus, the Pandavas, and the Somakas made certain covenants, and settled the rules, O bull of Bharata's race, regarding the different kinds of combat. Persons equally circumstanced must encounter each other, fighting fairly. And if having fought fairly the combatants withdraw (without fear of molestation), even that would be gratifying to us. Those who engaged in contests of words should be fought against with words."
"Those that left the ranks should never be slain. A car-warrior should have a car-warrior for his antagonist; he on the neck of an elephant should have a similar combatant for his foe; a horse should be met by a horse, and a foot-soldier, O Bharata; should be met by a foot-soldier. Guided by considerations of fitness, willingness, daring and might, one should strike another, giving notice. No one should strike another that is unprepared or panic-struck."
"One engaged with another, one seeking quarter, one retreating, one whose weapon is rendered unfit, uncased in mail, should never be struck. Car-drivers, animals (yoked to cars or carrying weapons) men engaged in the transport of weapons, players on drums and blowers of conches should never be struck. Having made these covenants, the Kurus, and the Pandavas, and the Somakas wondered much, gazing at each other."

The speech said by overrated Karna before his death in karna parva.
Quote;
He said these words, "O Partha, O Partha, wait for a moment, that is, till I lift this sunken wheel. Beholding, O Partha, the left wheel of my car swallowed through accident by the earth, abandon (instead of cherishing) this purpose (of striking and slaying me) that is capable of being harboured by only a coward. Brave warriors that are observant of the practices of the righteous, never shoot their weapons at persons with dishevelled hair, or at those that have turned their faces from battle, or at a Brahmana, or at him who joins his palms, or at him who yields himself up or beggeth for quarter or at one who has put up his weapon, or at one whose arrows are exhausted, or at one whose armour is displaced, or at one whose weapon has fallen off or been broken! Thou art the bravest of men in the world. Thou art also of righteous behaviour, O son of Pandu! Thou art well-acquainted with the rules of battle. For these reasons, excuse me for a moment, that is, till I extricate my wheel, O Dhananjaya, from the earth. Thyself staying on thy car and myself standing weak and languid on the earth, it behoveth thee not to slay me now. Neither Vasudeva, nor thou, O son of Pandu, inspirest me with the slightest fear. Thou art born in the Kshatriya order. Thou art the perpetuator of a high race. Recollecting the teachings of righteousness, excuse me for a moment, O son of Pandu!"
https://sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08090.htm
Logic - that means that cause during the jayadrath vadha chapter bheems arrows were exhausted Karna should not have attacked him with arrows.
Group attack vs Bhima (day 1):
"And roaring like a deep mass of clouds, and assuming an awful form, that hero frightened thy sons and fell upon them. Thereupon the brothers thy sons Duryodhana, and Durmukha and Dussaha, and that mighty car-warrior Dussasana, and Durmarshana, O king, and Vivingsati, and Chitrasena, and the great car-warrior Vikarna and also Purumitra, and Jaya, and Bhoja, and the valorous son of Somadatta, shaking their splendid bows like masses of clouds exhibiting the lightning's flashes, and taking out (of their quivers) long arrows resembling snakes that have just cast off their sloughs."
"Surrounded that mighty bowman rushing (towards them) covering him with flights of arrows like the clouds shrouding the sun. And the (five) sons of Draupadi, and the mighty car-warrior Saubhadra, and Nakula, and Sahadeva, and Dhrishtadyumna of Prishata's race, rushed against (those) Dhartarashtras, tearing them with whetted shafts like summits of mountains with the impetuous bolts of heaven. And in that first encounter characterised by the awful twang of bow-strings and their flapping against the leathern fences (of the warriors) no combatant, either on thy side or that of the foe, turned back."
Detail's; Here the kouravas began the rule breaking trend. Before any pandava warrior came to interfere these 12 warrior's (eleven were kourava princes, one was a son to Somadatta) ganged up on Bheem it was clearly cheating. How could a unbiased reader claim the first side to break rules was the pandav army?
Adding the other warriors still it was just 9 characters who aided Bheem that too only after he was attacked. So the pandav side was outnumbered it remains a group attack.
Rules broken by Vrihadvala (in his fight with Abhimanyu).
Quote;
"The mighty bowman Abhimanyu battled with Vrihadvala. Soon, however, in that encounter, O king, the ruler of Kosala cut off the standard and overthrew the charioteer of Subhadra's son. The son of Subhadra then upon the overthrow of his charioteer, was filled with wrath and pierced Vrihadvala, O king, with nine shafts, and with a couple of sharp arrows that grinder of foes also cut off (Vrihadvala's) standard, and with one (more) cut off one of the protectors of his car-wheels and with the other his charioteer. And those chastisers of foes continued to weaken each other with sharp arrows."
According to the laws previously explained the charioteer's were supposed to be given special treatment so they should never be struck or attacked. You can read that obviously the first warrior to hit a chariot driver was Vrihadvala (descendant of Raam) not Abhimanyu (son of shri Subhadra).
So this's the 2nd time that army (kouravas led by gandu bhishma) broke ethics, rules & laws of combat.

Also if we take this further back then during Adi Parva the kouravas together with Karna/Yuyutsu (102 chariot-fighter's in total) fought 2 people (Drupada/Satyajeet) unless you include pancala citizens so it was clearly adharma/cheating. After doing such a cowardly act these kouravas should never expect a fair fight.

Or in Ramayana it was cheating when Wiraadh was forced to fight a 2 vs 1 battle alone, him by himself up-against Laxman/Raam or the fights of Kabandha/Viswavasu were just as unfair. Readers/fanclubs often forget that the vanaras always did group attacks against Meghanada during Yuddh Kanda. Yet he gets immense hatred from hindus (cause he defeated 3 stooges/fudhu-harami character's). Even Atikaya was a victim of a vanar group attack, but never did a single vanara earn the label of "KAYAR" "Crook warrior" 'coward" "namard" etc. Because people have a bias/favoritism.