Tuesday, May 29, 2018

Arjuna defeated Lord Shiva multiple times according to the Mahabharata.

{Edited on 9:13 PM March 30th 2024}
Since this post is still getting attention to this very day allow me to make it clear now. I made this post with a desire to create a point that can be used against people that always think BORI CE mahabharat is the most accurate version.
The point is that BORI CE says Shiva was defeated by Arjuna but KMG disagrees. So not a single person has the right to say that BORI was the most authentic version of MB (maha bharata). That was my main reason, the second reason to make this post was to troll/harass fans of karna. Lastly to those that often use FOOT NOTES of bori as an argument to say shiva was not in the khandava daha incident my reply is that means if you consider one footnote to be authentic then you need to acknowledge every other foot note too.
Examples would be like footnotes in BORI also say that karna was dambodbhava in his former life they also mention that bheem defeated karna during sabha parva when the pandavas were sent to collect tributes from various nations. So if a person uses footnotes to say Shiva did not lose or was absent from khandava daha then they also need to admit karna lost to bheem in rajasuya & that karna was dambodbhava in his previous life. If a person does not do that then they should be considered a hypocrite.
{Completed at 9:15 PM March 30th, 2024}
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Let's get this straight and clear, defeating anyone is not impossible. No one is infallible and everyone can be defeated in life. Same for Shiva, he was defeated by Arjuna many times. And i have proof of his defeat from authentic Mahabharata translations.

  • The first defeat of Shiva, during Khandava Daha
    • Shiva along with Indra made a promise to the Nagas that they would protect them as they were friends. Like "Manik" (played by Rajnikanth) and "Anwar" in the hit film "Baasha" (1995).
    • Shiva's condition was described as so bad that he was in fear and actually fled away from the Khandava forest.
Screenshot
  • The second defeat of Shiva, in the invasion of the himalayas
The roof of the world (Himalayas) were conquered by Arjuna this includes KAILASA parvat.
Quote:
And defeating, O king, the Rishikas in the field of battle, Arjuna took from them as tribute eight horses that were of the colour of the parrot's breast, as also other horses of the hues of the peacock, born in northern and other climes and endued with high speed. At last having conquered all the Himalayas and the Nishkuta mountains, that bull among men, arriving at the White mountains, encamped on its breast."
And Kailasa was the abode of Shiva. He lived in the Himalayas, the mountain of Kailasha was a part of the Himalayan region during Arjuna's era.
Even Dhritarashtra said that Arjuna defeated eight (8) forms of Shiva.
Quote:
I have heard, O king, how Arjuna hath gratified in battle by means of his bow the god of gods--Sthanu of eleven forms. The illustrious lord of all the gods--Kapardin himself--desirous of testing Phalguna, fought with him, having assumed the guise of a Kirata. And there it was that the Lokapala, in order to give away their weapons unto that bull of the Kuru race, showed themselves unto him of undeteriorating prowess. What other man on earth, except Phalguna, would strive to have a sight of these gods in their own forms? And, O king, who is there that will weaken in battle Arjuna, who could not be weakened by Maheswara himself possessed of eight forms?
Analysis: Over here a anti-arjuna character (Dhritarashtra) stated that 8 (eight) ans-has of Mahadeva (Shiva) failed to win a fight against Arjuna. It is also stated very clearly in English that Arjuna was using his bow, this means it is not an incident of Kirata Parva. Dhritarashtra must be talking about either a fifth defeat or one of the defeats that Shiva suffered against Arjuna during the Digvijay Parva when Arjuna was still in Indraprastha. Either way its a defeat of Shiva.
Source:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03049.htm
  • The third defeat of Shiva, at the digvijay Parva
Shiva was a citizen of Kuvera's territory [text from bori critical edition]:
‘Yudhishthira said, “O lord! O supremely eloquent one! From what you have described, it is as if the entire world of kings is in Vaivasvata’s sabha. O illustrious one! You have said that all the serpents, the lords of the daityas, the rivers and the oceans are in Varuna’s sabha. And that the yakshas, guhyakas, rakshasas, gandharvas, apsaras and Shiva166 are in that of the lord of riches.167
Analysis: the lord of riches is clearly Kuvera meaning that he was the king of Shiva. He was a part of Kuvera's "Sabha". So Arjuna could not have conquered Kuvera's kingdom without defeating Shiva first.
Source: Sabha Parva section 11 "236(11)"
    • And here is when Arjuna conquered Kuvera's kingdom (the Guhyakas).
Quote:
The son of the chastiser of Paka used his army and determination to conquer the region known as Hataka, protected by Guhyaka. Having won them over with conciliation, he set his eyes on the supreme Laka Manasa.
Analysis:
Over here Arjuna defeated him through conciliation, and mediating the conflict instead of actually using his strength and force. But the text also clearly states that Arjuna used his army and determination to conquer that region.
Source: Sabha Parva Section 25
  • Kiratarjuna - most famous incident
During the Kirata Parva, most people believe the fight between Shiva & Arjuna was a stalemate/no conclusion. But the truth is that Arjuna also won this fight.
Prior knowledge, Arjuna was hungry and starving, he was partaking fasts for the past four months straight before this fight occurred, so Arjuna was not healthy, he was not at his peak, he was not at his prime, he was not at his full strength when he fought Shiva, yet he still somehow manages to beat him.
Quote:
Clad in rags made of grass and furnished with a black deerskin and a stick, he commenced to eat withered leaves fallen upon the ground. And he passed the first month, by eating fruits at the interval of three nights; and the second by eating at the interval of the six nights; and the third by eating at the interval of a fortnight. When the fourth month came, that best of the Bharatas--the strong-armed son of Pandu--began to subsist on air alone.
Analysis: This means that for one hundred twenty days (120) Arjuna kept fasting. While Shiva never did so.

    • Arjuna dragged lord Shiva:
The illustrious Arjuna then, taking up his bow and dragging the Kirata with his bow-string, struck him some fierce blows that descended like thunderbolts.
Analysis:
He dragged the god of gods himself with ease over here. That too just by using the string of his bow. The attacks of Arjuna were compared to Indra's vajra.
    • Clashing sword with Shiva
Quote:
Arjuna took up his sword, and wishing to end the conflict, rushed at his foe. And then the Kuru prince, with the whole might of his arms, struck that sharp weapon upon the head of the Kirata, a weapon that was incapable of being resisted even by solid rocks. But that first of swords, at touch of the Kirata's crown, broke into pieces. Phalguna then commenced the conflict with trees and stones. The illustrious god in the form of the huge-bodied Kirata, however, bore that shower of trees and rocks with patience.
Analysis: Imagine a completely drained Karna, injured, wounded, starving, would he ever have been able to pull off such a good performance against Shiva?
    • Arjuna was throwing punches with Shiva.
Quote:
The mighty son of Pritha then, his mouth smoking with wrath, struck the invincible god in the form of a Kirata, with hi clenched fists, blows that descended like thunderbolts. The god in the Kirata form returned Phalguna's blows with fierce blows resembling the thunderbolts of Indra. And in consequence of that conflict of blows between the son of Pandu and the Kirata, there arose in that place loud and frightful sounds. That terrible conflict of blows, resembling the conflict of yore between Vritra and Vasava, lasted but for a moment. The mighty Jishnu clasping the Kirata began to press him with his breast, but the Kirata, possessed of great strength pressed the insensible son of Pandu with force. And in consequence of the pressure of their arms and of their breasts, their bodies began to emit smoke like charcoal in fire.
Analysis: Arjuna and Shiva both performed equally well over here. Their fight was compared to Indra's with Vritra's. Shiva punched Arjuna many times yet Arjuna still fought back.

    • Proof that Shiva cheated during this fight.
Quote:
Even this Gandiva is that bow, O son of Pritha, fit for thy hands. O foremost of male beings, I snatched it from thee, helped by my powers of illusion. This couple of quivers, fit for thee, will again be inexhaustible, O son of Pritha! And, O son of the Kuru race, thy body will be free from pain and disease. Thy prowess is incapable of being baffled.
Analysis: So even Shiva could fight with Arjuna only by cheating and theft and deception. He himself admitted it. People always call Indrajit Meghnath (the son of Ravana) to be a cheater who relied on illusions, magic tricks and tamsi maya etc, but never call out Shiva for his cheating with Arjuna!

  • Later references by Krishna claim this to be a victory of Arjuna and a defeat of Shiva.
Quote:
‘He is regarded as the supreme one among gods and humans. He is the wielder of Gandiva, the one with the white horses. The supreme of apes sits astride his standard. He is Jishnu. He defeated and satisfied Shankara, the one with the blue throat and Uma’s consort, the god who is the lord of the gods, himself in a duel.20 There is no other man on earth whom I love as much.
Analysis: Shankara is another name of Shiva, and Krishna claims that Arjuna had defeated him in a duel. Arjuna's superiority was confirmed by krishna himself.
Source: Souptika Parva section 12 - Bori Critical Edition
Screenshot [Krishna to Asvathamma]
So now as you can all read even Bori Mahabharata accepts the fact that Arjuna defeated Shiva. Don't mistake me to be a Vishnu bhakt, i am a firm believer that the shiva bhakt known as "Mandara" defeated lord Vishnu. I don't like Vishnu and i never did. For me Nara, Narayana, Krishna, Rama, Parasurama, Bhargava, Vishnu etc are all different people, they are not the same person. I am not playing favoritism.
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Saturday, May 26, 2018

Bhima vs Arjuna - a descriptive comparison.

Bhima and Arjuna despite being brothers have been compared to each other very often. Bhima while being a great warrior was never an invincible one (like Arjuna) instead he was a ordinary one who was capable of being defeated (like Karna).
For all of you people that believe Madhavacharya's Mahabharata commentary (Mahabaratha Tatparya Nirnaya) let me just say this, it was never written by Vyasa, the author (Madhava) claims to be alive (he was born in the 11th century and said he would live for over ten thousand years, yet it was has not even been half of that amount of time and he is clearly dead), his interpretation of the epic is clearly a later addition (interpolation) and turns the Mahabharata into mythology instead  of history (you can find numerous curses/boons in his commentary). Such an illogical interpretation is not superior to any of the interpretations (that are widely accepted as authentic) like Kmg, Bori ce, Gita Press etc.
And if you are talking about me using Madhavacharya's version, i only use his version when he contains something in his Mahabharata that is also in Kmg's translation and BORI's version/Debroy's translation. Let's be honest over here too, his interpretation degrades Bhima's character instead of uplifting it. It makes him a blind follower/devotee of Krishna, which he clearly was not.
In the authentic Mahabharata (when Krishna questioned Bhima's prowess in Udyoga Parva) then bhima lashed out at him and began to praise himself.
Quote:
'Thus addressed by Vasudeva, the ever-wrathful Bhima, incapable of bearing insults, was immediately awakened like a steed of high metal, and replied, without losing a moment, saying, 'O Achyuta, I wish to act in a particular way; thou, however, takest me in quite a different light. That I take great delight in war and that my prowess is incapable of being baffled, must, O Krishna. be well-known to p. 163 thee in consequence of our having lived together for a long time. Or it may be, thou knowest me not, like one swimming in a lake ignorant of its depth. It is for this that thou chidest me in such unbecoming words. Who else, O Madhava, knowing me to be Bhimasena, could address me with such unbecoming words as thou dost?
Analysis: This quote proves multiple things. One that Bhima and Krishna were companions (they had lived with each other for a very long time) not devotees/gods. Two, they would not hesitate to talk back to each other and utter anything disagreeable between themselves. So if Bhima was a blind follower/devotee then he would never disobey Krishna and feel insulted by him.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m05/m05076.htm
Here are a few fan-fiction incidents in Madhavacharya's mahabharata

  • Bhima not snatching Karna's "sakti dart" because he knew about Krishna's plan to kill Ghatotkaca.
    • In actual mahabharata bhima cared for his son and protected him, he never knew about that weapon of Karna which would kill a singular opponent, and that his son Ghatotkatcha would be the victim.
  • Bhima doing a digvijaya (before the burning of the house of lac), defeating characters like Kichaka and Jarasandha (even before the birth of Ghatotkaca in "Adi Parva").
    • In actual Mahabharata bhima never has a single encounter with Jarasandha before the burning of the house of lac.
  • Bhima not breaking the Chakravyuha of the Kuru army on the 13th day, even though he supposedly had the capability to do so.
    • In actual Mahabharata bhima did not break their Chakravyuha because he simply did not have the competence necessary. He was not as powerful as Arjuna that he could achieve such a feat. He instead suffered a defeat at the hands of Jayadratha.
Here is the pathetic defeat of Bhima at the hands of Jayadratha on the 13th day.
Quote:
Marking that lightness of hands showed by Jayadratha, Bhima then with three broad-headed shafts, quickly felled on the earth his bow, standard and umbrella. The mighty Jayadratha then, taking up another bow, strung it and felled Bhima's standard and bow and steeds. O sire! His bow cut off, Bhimasena then jumping down from that excellent car whose steeds had been slain, mounted on the car of Satyaki, like a lion jumping to the top of a mountain. Seeing this, thy troops were filled with joy.
Analysis: Look in the whole chapter, nowhere is it stated that he "willingly" lost. That he "could have" won. Also Bhima had to flee and lost his chariot/bow, such things have never happened to Arjuna where he lost a bow and a chariot at the same time, and was forced to seek the help of a comrade. Jayadratha's reaction speed, striking speed, and skill was superior to Bhima's.
  • Bhima letting Arjuna become the best student of Drona.
    • In actual mahabharata bhima never "allowed" something to happen, he is not the type to sit and relax, stand by and do nothing as another person does something that he "could have" done.
This is what happened.
Quote:
Arjuna, however, from devotion to the science of arms, always stayed by the side of his preceptor, and in skill, strength of arms, and perseverance, excelled all (his class-fellows). Indeed, although the instruction the preceptor gave, was the same in the case of all, yet in lightness and skill Arjuna became the foremost of all his fellow-pupils.
Analysis:
Clearly the text states that Arjuna received the same education that everyone else (including his brother Bhima) did, yet still Arjuna came out on the top as he learned the most. He was a better learned than Bhima.
  • Bhima lost to Karna on purpose and pretended to be defeated because of Karna's boon from Parasurama.
    • In actual Mahabharata Bhima was never the type of guy to willingly lose a fight against his enemy just because that teacher promised the student that he will be invincible with a certain bow. "Bhima would break rather than bowdown" (duryodhana to kripa in Salya Parva).

Bhima in-fact has the most amount of defeats and retreats in the epic Mahabharata (after Karna). Even karna fans (like Niraj Sharma) have agreed with the fact that Arjuna is superior to Bhima. Here is the screenshot below to prove my claim.
Bhima is not better than Arjuna in any aspects, not as a person, and not as a fighter. The boon of Shiva also excludes Arjuna, thus proving his superiority (not only over Bhima but also Shiva - my views). And this is proof of a Karna fan agreeing with me (at the very least on Arjuna being superior to Bhima).

  • Arjuna was also physically stronger than Bhima, it's just that he is not known for his physical strength as much because he was better in archery. Just like Bhima is not known for archery (as much as he is known for his physical strength).
    • 1st proof - Arjuna holds Bhima in Sabha Parva.
Kmg version
Quote:
Bound by the ties of virtue and the reverence that is due to our eldest brother, and repeatedly urged by Arjuna to remain silent, I am not doing anything terrible.
Analysis: Bhima said that Arjuna urged him to remain silent, yet Bhima still spoke.... So he contradicted himself. But Bhima included Arjuna as a reason for him not doing anything in the Sabha.
Debroy version
Screenshot
Analysis:
Over here it is clearly stated that bhima was "restrained" by Arjuna. Signifying the superior strength/capability of Arjuna over Bhima. Whether or not he was using force to restrain Bhima is debatable.
Definition of "restrained" - kept under control; prevented from freedom of movement or action. https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=pRsJW8bVL4zEjwP7lLD4BA&q=define+restrained&oq=define+restrained&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0j0i22i30k1l9.3658.11929.0.12615.19.16.0.0.0.0.1104.5216.3j5j1j1j1j2j1j1.16.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..3.16.5843.6..35i39k1j0i131k1j0i20i264k1j0i10k1.630.ffwV7bUhEvE By the way Shalya also told Karna (in the Bori Ce text of Debroy) that if he "restrains" Bhima then he will get Arjuna to fight him. So restrain may be the use of force.
    • 2nd proof - Arjuna's arms were stronger than Bhima's
Quote:
Arjuna, however, from devotion to the science of arms, always stayed by the side of his preceptor, and in skill, strength of arms, and perseverance, excelled all (his class-fellows).
Analysis: Bhima would also be included among the students of Drona, and it is stated that Arjuna surpassed him and exceeded the strength of every disciple.
  • Arjuna killed 1 million Gandharvas but bhima could barely kill 100s of them in Ghosha Yatra.
Proof (screenshot of BORI Mahabharata, translated by Bibek Debroy).

  • Arjuna protected Drona when no one else (not even Bhima & Yudhishthira) had chosen to.
Quote:
And when Drona had plunged into the stream, a strong alligator, sent as it were, by Death himself seized him by the thigh. And though himself quite capable, Drona in a seeming hurry asked his pupil to rescue him. And he said, 'O, kill this monster and rescue me.' Contemporaneously with this speech, Vibhatsu (Arjuna) struck the monster within the water with five sharp arrows irresistible in their course, while the other pupils stood confounded, each at his place. Beholding Arjuna's readiness, Drona considered him to be the foremost of all his pupils, and became highly pleased.
Analysis: The text clearly says "while the other pupils stood confounded, each at his place." These other pupils would include Bhima, Karna, Duryodhana, Aswathama, Yudhishthira also. So Arjuna helped Drona when even his own son Aswathama would not and when Bhima would not.


Misconception, Arjuna won the war post the Swayamvara because he was protected by Bhima, thus proving Bhima's superiority.
    • Know that Arjuna had to fight off karna, and that Arjuna was group attacked by multiple adversaries (which is why Bhima had to support him).
      • Let us not forget that Arjuna was using the method of bow/arrow to fight, which takes up a lot more time in comparison to bhima's methods in that incident.
        • Arjuna was fighting the same Karna that would defeat, swoon and spare Bhima in the kurukshetra war.
      • Bhima's methods were basically hand to hand combat over their, his reach and speed were also supported by the tree that he lifted up to combat Kshatriyas.
        • Most of the warriors that Bhima fought were no challenge for Arjuna. Bhima was fighting canon fodder.
      • Whenever this incident is talked about (in the Mahabharata text) then it is always Arjuna who gets most of the attention and praise, not Bhima.
I hope that Bhima fans will not start to copy karna fans now and i will have to say "just like karna fans, bhima fans often make their claims on the basis of fan-fiction, to put it simply these things never happened. Bhima never defeated Shiva in a authentic scripture/source, Bhima never pretended to lose a fight, Arjuna was not trembling when Jarasandha was making a choice on who he should select to wrestle."
And if you believe in the adulterated, illogical, mythical narrative of Svargarohanika Parva then you will also have to believe that Arjuna went to heaven fourth before Bhima on that trip.
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Sunday, May 20, 2018

The ape on Arjuna's chariot. Hanuman in the Mahabharata?

In this post let's analyze and look through all of the moments where the "ape" is talked about in the Kurukshetra war, to see if it was truly Hanuman or not. To see who the ape really was. As i have already shown the ape on Arjuna's banner during the Virata war, and nowhere was the ape mentioned to be Hanuman now let's see the Kurukshetra war. Note that i will also be excluding the Bhagavad Gita chapters from my analysis.
1st day
  • Description of banners

Quote:
With numerous banners all waving, with steeds looking handsome like a flight of (white) cranes, with standard upraised on which was the ape roaring fiercely, upon his large car of solar effulgence and whose rattle resembled roar of the clouds, slaughtering the Kaurava divisions and the Surasenas also, the son of Pandu, that enhancer of the joys of friends speedily came to the encounter.
Analysis: This just shows that the ape was roaring, not that it was Hanuman. As a matter of fact the roar of the ape had no impact on the Kuru/kourava army that day.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06052.htm
2nd day
No mention of the ape, smh.
3rd day
Still no ape, no Hanuman.
4th day

  • First time the Kuru warriors are affected? Sanjaya mentions the ape days later.

Quote:
Pervaded by diverse kinds of forces possessed of great strength, and having in its wings elephants, steeds, infantry, and cars in profusion, that array the high-souled (Arjuna) having the prince of apes on his banner beheld from a distance to resemble a mighty mass of clouds. 3 That high-souled hero, that bull among men, upon his car furnished with tall standard and unto which were yoked white steeds, at the head of his (own) division and surrounded by a mighty force, proceeded against the whole hostile army. And all the Kauravas with thy sons, beholding that ape-bannered (warrior) with his excellent standard and handsome car-shaft wrapped (in costly cover), accompanied by that bull p. 156 of Yadu's race, his charioteer in battle, were filled with dismay.
Analysis: The test says that they were dismayed only because of Arjuna not the ape. So this is just another mention of the ape, it is called a "prince". Definition of dismay "consternation and distress, typically that caused by something unexpected. cause (someone) to feel consternation and distress."
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06060.htm

  • The apes meeting with Bhisma

Quote:
And that high-souled warrior having the prince of apes on his banner, of feats incapable of being borne, then poured in return upon Bhishma, that best of all wielders of bows a shower of sharp-edged arrows and polished shafts of broad heads. And so thy troops also beheld that shower of mighty weapons shot by him who had the prince of apes on his banner, opposed and dispersed by Bhishma like the maker of day dispelling (the gloom of night).
Analysis:
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06060.htm
5th day
No mention of the ape at all, even though it was a pretty long day in the war. Was the battle incomplete without the ape?
6th day
Perhaps Arjuna did not have that great of a role during this day, which is why a decent excuse can be made for the lack of the great ape's mention in the kurukshetra war.
7th day

  • The ape returns

Quote:
Then the mighty Bhishma, the son of Santanu, (thus rushing to battle), speedily came upon Arjuna of Bharata's race who also had been coming towards him, on his exceedingly resplendent and large car unto which were yoked white steeds and upon which was set up his standard bearing the fierce ape, and whose rattle resembled the deep roll of the clouds. And thy entire army, beholding the diadem-decked Dhananjaya, thus coming to battle, uttered, from fear, many loud exclamations.
Analysis: After twenty three chapters it (the ape) makes a grand return, but once again achieved nothing. So far it is consistent in not being a participant, in not having any contribution to Mahabharata at all. The text states that the Kaurava army was scared of Dhanajaya (aka Arjuna) not the ape on his banner.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06083.htm
8th day
This was supposedly the day that Arjuna's eldest son "Iravat" died, and the day that Hanuman's brother "Bhima" killed more of the Kourava brothers/sons of Dhritarashtra, but yet no mention of the ape on Arjuna's banner was made this day by Sanjaya...
9th day
Once again, no mention of the ape here either. On this very day Hanumanji's prabhu "Sri Ram"'s avatar/incarnation "Krishna" had taken up arms against Bhisma, yet still no mention of any ape this day was narrated.
10th day

  • Drona talks about the ape (he mentioned the ape at-least once).

Quote:
Go to battle, keeping heaven before thee, and for the sake of fame and victory. There, the ape-bannered (Arjuna) crosseth on his car the river of battle that is awful and incapable of being easily crossed, and hath cars, elephants, and steeds, for its eddies.
Analysis: No special mention was even given to the ape, just the fact it was on the banner of Arjuna's chariot, that's it.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06113.htm

  • Sanjaya mentions the ape during the Bhisma vs Pandavas match.

Quote:
Supported by the Chedis and the Panchalas, the ape-bannered Arjuna, placing Sikhandin ahead, proceeded towards Bhishma, the son of Santanu.
Analysis: Once again just ape on the banner that's it.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06116.htm

  • Next mention of the ape

Quote:
Then those Kshatriyas, O monarch, afflicted with those arrows with their tall standards torn and overthrown, could not even together, approach the ape-bannered (Partha).
Analysis: Just the fact that the ape was on the banner, it's basically repeating the same thing again and again, again and again. Sanjaya could not come up with anything new to say about the ape.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06118.htm

  • Ape associated with the banner

Quote:
Thus urged, the ape-bannered Arjuna at that moment made Bhishma with his car, steeds, and standard, invisible by means of his arrows.
Analysis: At this point it's just redundant and useless. Same thing as before.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06119.htm

  • While in pain Bhisma speaks about the ape.

Quote:
Save the heroic wielder of Gandiva, viz., the ape-bannered Jishnu, even all other kings united together cannot cause me pain.
Analysis: Time knows why Bhisma continues to call Arjuna as "the ape-bannered"?
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06120.htm
11th day
During this day their was no mention of the ape on Arjuna's chariot.
12th day

  • During the encounter with Sudhanwan
Quote:
Partha, having the excellent ape-device on his banner, pierced all of them in return with many arrows, and also cut off, with some broad-headed shafts, their standards made of gold.
Analysis: the ape is mentioned but the ape did not do anything, it was basically just their as a non factor. It is stated that arjuna (Partha) pierced them all.
  • Arjuna turning back
Quote:
Desirous of alone slaughtering in battle thousands of car-warriors, Indra's son (Arjuna) having the foremost of apes on banner, suddenly turned back. Even this was what both Duryodhana and Karna had thought of for achieving the slaughter of Arjuna.
Analysis: "turning back" this does not mean that Arjuna was defeated or running away/avoiding confrontation in the war, it means that he turned back to confront the enemy again. The text clearly says that Arjuna wanted to kill thousands of Rathas (car warriors). Read the text of page 63 (in Drona Parva) completely.
  • Sanjaya's description of the ape
Quote:
Possessed of great fame and endued as he was with the energy of the Sun himself, Arjuna's emblem, viz., his banner bearing the ape, was beheld by us to blaze with splendour.
Analysis:
It was just a really shiny piece of art, big deal. No hints towards the ape being Hanuman.

13th day
Quote:
Beholding his brothers and sons, the ape-bannered Arjuna became very cheerless.
Analysis: Lol it seems like the man who has an ape on his chariot (that makes all of his foes/opponents cheerless) has become cheerless himself.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07069.htm
14th day

  • Dhritarashtra calls it the prince of apes
Quote:
Beholding that warrior having the prince of apes on his banner, that hero grieved on account of his son's death shaking his gigantic bow in battle, what did my warrior do?
Analysis: Even some ordinary elephants are called prince of elephants. And being a prince is no evidence of that ape being Hanuman, as he has never been called Hanuman in the whole entire epic.
  • Next mention
Quote:
And the ape on Arjuna's banner, opening his mouth wide, made an awful noise with the other creatures on it, for terrifying thy troops. Then conchs and horns and cymbals and Anakas were once more blown and beat for cheering thy warriors.
Analysis: This quote suggests that their were more creatures sitting on Arjuna's chariot besides the ape, one can only imagine what the strength of the horses that pulled the chariot of Arjuna must be then, to pull so many animals and warriors together is no easy task. But this text only says for terrifying the troops not that any of the troops were terrified.
  • Sight of the ape makes Kauravas cheerless
Quote:
Many warriors, beholding the car whose rattle resembled the roar of clouds, and which was equipped with that terrible standard bearing the ape and whose banner floated upon the wind, became exceedingly cheerless.
Analysis: The banner is linked to the word "wind", but however this cannot be used to say that the ape was the son of the wind god (Pavana).
  • Clash with the lion tail of Aswathama's flag
Quote:
Those banners, again, moved by the wind, looked like fair ladies dancing in the midst of a sporting arena. Endued with the splendour of the rainbow, those banners, O bull of Bharata's race, of those car-warriors, floating in the breeze, highly adorned their cars. The standard, bearing the sign of the ape of fierce face and tail, like that of the lion, belonging to Dhananjaya, seemed to inspire fear in that battle. That standard, O king of the wielder of Gandiva, bearing that foremost of apes, and adorned with many banners, frightened the Kuru host. Similarly, the lion-tail standard-top of Drona's son, O Bharata, we saw, was endued with the effulgence of the rising sun Decked with gold, floating in the breeze, possessed of the splendour of the rainbow, the standard mark of Drona's son appeared on high, inspiring the foremost of Kuru warriors with joy.
Analysis: It seems like Aswathama (son of Drona) had a perfect animal/beast to counter the ape on Arjuna's chariot. Is it not possible that every major warrior had a banner just like Arjuna did? What was so special about the ape on Arjuna's banner? That it frightened his enemies? That it roared? The banner of Arjuna over here was comapfred to fair skinned women dancing in a sporting arena.

  • The ape cannot be seen
Quote:
Not seeing that tiger among men viz., the ape-bannered Arjuna, and not hearing also the twang of Gandiva, the monarch became filled with anxiety, not seeing Satyaki also, that foremost of car-warriors among the Vrishnis, king Yudhishthira the Just became equally anxious.
Analysis: Since Arjuna was so far away none of the Pandava warriors (including their king Yudhishthira) could see the ape on his flag.
  • Karna blames Arjuna's resources as the cause for his victory on the fourteenth day
Quote:
Armed with celestial weapons and mounted on his ape-bannered car, the reins of whose steeds again were in the hands of Krishna, cased in impenetrable armour, and taking his celestial bow Gandiva of unfading might, the valiant Arjuna, scattering keen arrows, and proud of the strength of his arms, transgressed Drona. There is nothing to wonder at this.
Analysis: As we all know "losers" always come up with excuses to hide their defeats, they are shameless bores that hide their heads under mud.

14th night
The ape was not mentioned in the thirty plus chapters covering Ghatotkaca's death, no ape means no Hanuman interference during the war that night.

  • Perhaps the ape was taking a nap. 
  • Or maybe, just maybe the ape could not be seen because it was a night battle/nocturnal battle in the hours of darkness.
  • But then what about when Drona/Duryodhana ordered torches to be lit next to each chariot so that light could be their? Huh? 
    • Even then their was no sign of the ape was seen, was hanuman afraid of darkness?

15th day
Surprisingly even during the day of Drona's death still no ape is mentioned and neither is Hanuman mentioned. In such a key important incident of the war Hanuman was not their, the ape had no role, no contribution at all, he was not even mentioned. No involvement of the ape whatsoever.
16th day
On the 16th day the ape was never mentioned, surprisingly. Where was Hanuman on the 16th day of the Kurukshetra war? Where was he? Was he veer? I mean i pressed "control F" so many multiple times and did not find any hanuman/ape mentioned during sections 1 to 30.
17th day

  • Shalya talks about the ape
Quote:
Behold the heroic son of Kunti, the unvanquished Vibhatsu (Arjuna) with that foremost of apes on his standard, advancing for the destruction of the foe. There, on the top of Partha's standard, is to be seen that terrible ape, that enhancer of the fears of foes, attracting the gaze (of warriors) from every side.
Analysis: The ape is always talked about. It is said to enhance the fear of the enemy and attract the attention of warriors from both sides.
  • The ape roars
Quote:
Then Susharma, piercing Partha with ten shafts, struck Janardana with three in the right arm. With a broad-headed arrow then, O sire, he pierced the standard of Arjuna. Thereupon that foremost of apes, of huge dimensions, the handiwork of the celestial artificer himself, began to utter loud sounds and roared very fiercely, affrighting thy troops. Hearing the roars of the ape, thy army became inspired with fear. Indeed, under the influence of a great fear, that army became perfectly inactive. That army then, as it stood inactive, O king, looked beautiful like the Citraratha forest with its flowery burthen of diverse kinds. Then those warriors, recovering their senses, O chief of the Kurus, began to drench Arjuna with their arrowy downpours like the clouds drenching the mountains.
Analysis:
This makes it obvious that their was a real ape sitting on the chariot of Arjuna, as the ape roared, and due to this roar several car warriors of the Kourava army had lost their senses. Over here the ape may be called foremost of apes, but the foremost ape title belongs to Angada, Sugriva, Mainda, Dwivida etc as they were kings of the Vanara race. Even here the ape is called "handiwork" of Viswakarman.
  • Sanjaya describes the ape
Quote:
That ape-bannered car, the clatter of whose wheels resembled the deep roar of the clouds and whose flags waved in the air, penetrated into the host like a celestial car passing through the welkin. Keshava and Arjuna, filled with rage, and with eyes red as blood, as they penetrated, piercing through thy vast host, looked exceedingly resplendent in their splendour.
Analysis: For any good reader of the Mahabharata it should be common knowledge (by now) that it is a habit of Sanjaya to compare the clatter of wheels and speed of movements to wind and other things. Over here it still says just ape not Hanuman. Nothing special about the ape.
  • Karna can see the ape [Krishna to Arjuna]
Quote:
There, the son of Radha turneth towards this direction, beholding thy banner bearing the ape, and desiring, O Partha, an encounter with thee, O scorcher of foes. Indeed, he cometh for his own destruction, even like an insect into the mouth of a lamp.
Analysis: It seems like people used to identify Arjuna in the battlefield due to the special design of his banner (as he is the only one with an ape on his flagstaff), so karna could see the flag of Arjuna despite being miles away. Interesting. And perhaps the ape did not frighten people as Karna still choose to advance towards Arjuna.
  • Yudhishthira shames Arjuna's equipment's (including the ape that people in the present day believe to be Hanuman)
Quote:
"Thou ridest upon an excellent car constructed by the celestial artificer himself, with axles that do not creak, and with standard that bears the ape. Thou bearest a sword attached to thy belt of gold and silk. This thy bow Gandiva is full six cubits long. Thou hast Keshava for thy driver. Why, then, through fear of Karna hast thou come away from battle, O Partha? If, O thou of wicked soul, thou hadst given this bow to Keshava and become his driver, then Keshava could have (by this time) slain the fierce Karna like the lord of the Maruts (Sakra) slaying with his thunder the Asura Vritra. If thou art unable to resist the fierce son of Radha today, as he is careering in battle, give this thy Gandiva today to some other king, that may be thy superior in (the use and knowledge of) weapons. If that be done, the world will not then behold us bereft of sons and wives, deprived of happiness in consequence of the loss of kingdom, and sunk, O son of Pandu, in an unfathomable hell of great misery. It would have been better for thee if thou hadst never been born in the womb of Kunti, or having taken thy birth there, if thou hadst come out on the fifth month an abortion, than to have, O prince, thus come away from battle, O thou of wicked soul! Fie on thy Gandiva, fie on the might of thy arms, fie on thy inexhaustible arrows! Fie on thy banner with the gigantic ape on it, and fie on thy car given thee by the god of fire!"
Analysis: First he hyped up the object known as the "ape" and then at the end of his paragraph he decided to insult the ape. I don't think our dharmic king Yudhishthira would insult the ape if he believed it was Hanuman who is the ape.
  • Bhima's charioteer talks about the ape (Visoka to bhima)
Quote:
"Behold, the string of Gandiva is flashing repeatedly like lightning amid blue clouds. Yonder the Ape on Dhananjaya's standard-top is everywhere seen to terrify hostile divisions in this dreadful battle. Even I, looking at it, am struck with fear. There the beautiful diadem of Arjuna is shining brilliantly. There, the precious jewel on the diadem, endued with the splendour of the sun, looketh exceedingly resplendent."
Analysis: It seems weird to me that bhima's charioteer would be able to see the flag of Arjuna's chariot while being so far away.
  • Aswathama's encounter with the ape
Quote:
Then Drona's son pierced Dhananjaya with ten foremost of shafts, and Keshava with three, and the four steeds of Dhananjaya with four, and showered many shafts on the Ape on Arjuna's banner. For all that, Dhananjaya cut off the full drawn bow in his adversary's hand with three shafts, the head of his driver with a razor-faced arrow, and his four steeds with his four other shafts and his standard with three other arrows and felled him from his car.
Analysis:
I don't think Aswathama could defeat Hanumanji, it is not shown in several TV serials that Aswathaman (and many other warriors) attacked the ape on Arjuna's flag.... the ape never defended itself. Was Hanuman a coward to not fight back? Now Krishna has an excuse as he's just a charioteer and won't fight but the ape does not have any excuse/boundaries.
  • Arjuna's ape magically jumps on and attacks karna's elephant rope
Quote:
The standards of the two heroes, perfectly bright, looked exceedingly beautiful on their cars, like the planets Rahu and Ketu risen in the firmament at the time of the universal dissolution. The elephant's rope on Karna's banner, looking like a snake of virulent poison and made of jewels and gems and exceedingly strong and resembling the bow of Indra, looked resplendent (as it waved in the air). That foremost of apes, again, belonging to Partha, with jaws wide open and terrible, and difficult of being gazed at, like the sun himself, inspired fear by his formidable teeth. The impetuous Ape on the standard of the wielder of Gandiva, becoming desirous of battle, rushed from his station and fell upon Karna's standard. Endued with great impetuosity, the Ape, darting forward, struck the elephant's rope with his nails and teeth, like Garuda falling upon a snake. Decked with rows of little bells, hard as iron, and resembling the fatal noose (in the hands of Yama or Varuna), the elephant's rope, filled with wrath, closed with the Ape. Thus in that fierce single combat between those two heroes, which was the result of what had been settled at the time of the match at dice, their standards first battled with each other.
Analysis: 
Logically it doesn't make any sense for a image/painting/drawing on a flag to jump out into thin air and attack a image on another flag. So was their an ape on top of Arjuna's chariot holding his flag for him? And Karna's elephant rope is linked to a snake, so how could a snake sit on top of a chariot right next to the flag? Perhaps it as an interpolation, or mistranslated, or just is symbolism (the truth is hidden by using different words to describe the incident, turning it into a riddle to solve).

18th day

  • Ape's roar compared to Bhima's

Quote:
The vast (Kaurava) host, approaching his Ape-bearing standard that is lofty as an Indra's pole (set up in the season of spring) and that is effulgent as Indra's bow, hath always trembled in fear. At the leonine roars of Bhimasena and the blare of Panchajanya and the twang of Gandiva, our heart will die away within us.
Analysis: Sanjaya claims that whenever the Kaurava army approached Arjuna's ape flag then they always trembled in fear. But an immediate question comes into mind if they all trembled in fear then how could they dare to approach the ape? It wasn't some caged animal at the zoo whom you could pet.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m09/m09004.htm

  • The ape is mentioned but was inactive.

Quote:
Then the ape-bannered son of Pandu, O king, having slaughtered the Samsaptakas in battle, rushed against that portion of the Kaurava army.
Analysis: The death of the Samsaptakas had nothing to do with the ape, it was all Arjuna's handiwork. The ape is just a spectator.
Source:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m09/m09010.htm

  • The ape is called "celestial' during the interpolated chariot blasting.
Quote:

The intelligent Krishna, abandoning the reins of the steeds, then dismounted from the car of Dhananjaya. After the high-souled Lord of all creatures had dismounted from that car, the celestial Ape that topped the mantle of Arjuna's vehicle, disappeared there and then.
Analysis: First the definition of "topped" needs to be understood. Also the lord of all creatures refers to Krishna (as it specifically stated "after") not the ape. It also states that the ape simply disappeared, no such incident of the ape talking to Arjuna and Krishna is mentioned (like shown in tv series) even in this above interpolated incident.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m09/m09062.htm
Overall most of the mentions seem to have occurred on the 14th and 17th days.
Nowhere was the ape ever mentioned to be Hanumana. I think that the ape was like an ornament to adorn the chariot and decorate it to scare people. Just an image that makes people scared/afflicted with fear.
Posted by at 9 comments:

Friday, May 18, 2018

The mentality of Karna fans.

THIS POST IS STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION/MAINTENANCE
Over the years since the birth of the internet/social media, their have always been certain people who live fake lives across the internet. Who are mentally filled with hypocrisy and bias. Who lack common sense or just do not want to accept the truth. One group of such people are known as the "karna fans".
So let's analyze all of their behaviors.

  1. Copying, they copy everything that Arjuna fans do. These Karna fans lack originality so just like how Karna copied Arjuna's performance in a Tournament so do Karna fans copy Arjuna fans. For example the first people to post long threads/essay posts on Facebook.com where you would place a link to the KMG translation of Mahabharata were Arjuna fans, but then later on Karna fans started to copy them by posting the exact same threads only difference making it an anti-Arjuna post and a pro-Karna one. Another example of their endless copying is how they copy what another Arjuna fan says in a discussion, here is just one screenshot
    none of the people in that page are Karna haters, they are just the people that want to expose truth and reality and stop lies from being spread.
  2. Bias, they will only agree with you if you praise Karna and malign a character they don't like (sometimes it's not even Arjuna). Although i will say this, that their was one Karna fan that was good, but also sometimes start to insult you and vilify you and spread wrong information about you making false accusations but sometimes he behaved in a respectful manner. His name is Niraj Sharma. He may also be a negative person but he is still better than ninety percent of the Karna fanbase. Here is an example of his good behavior but it proves his bias
    Here is a piece of evidence that shows how Arjuna haters/Karna fans up voted a answer that supports the character of Karna's best friend Duryodhana. They support answers on quora that still spread fake stories/myths about the epic Mahabharata as long as they praise Karna. For example, look at this Karna fans true feelings
    , and then take a look at this quora answer
    , and look at the Karna fans that up voted the answer
    . So if they consider Madhwacharya's Mahabharata to be "BS" then why would they up vote and support an answer that uses information from it?!? Oh i know, probably because it said something good about Karna............ The bias is real.
  3. Abuse, they start to abuse you automatically And once again another Karna fan named "Pranesh Ramachandran" insulted Krishna and Arjuna
    yet they claim to be fair and unbiased.
  4. Hypocrisy, they themselves abused a person named Vijay Bhide and called him a roadrunner/coward. Yet they have a problem when someone else abuses him, pavan ingle himself insulted Vijay Bhide but these people want to use Vijay Bhide's help to protect pavan ingle? Smh.
    Another thing i noticed, that these Karna fans will claim that this Mahabharata topic is halting their lives and wasting their time, so they use that as an appeal to end a discussion instead of actually changing their opinion/mind. For example Siddarth Reddy commented like this,but then a few days later continued to debate on another Facebook page, despite the fact he said that he was not going to be a part of this anymore. They will make fake accounts and then accuse other people of having fake accounts. For example pavan ingle and Zankhana Jadeja. Pavan Ingle has multiple accounts, let me just list some, Dhaval Thacker, Smit Soni, Aryan Tayde, Yash Agarwal etc. Zankhana Jadeja has a second account called Parth Shah
    Link to both of the accounts, Parth Shah - https://www.quora.com/profile/Parth-Shah-968 Zankhana Jadeja - https://www.quora.com/profile/Zankhana-Jadeja-1 Also they call Arjuna fans abusers
    , but they never ever call out such abuse as done by a fellow karna fan...
  5. Same writing style, they sometimes put too many periods/dots in their comments on social media. One Karna fan comments with multiple dots in between the words in the sentences of his paragraphs/comments like this
    Of course Dinkar Rudra (his username changed to just "Rudra" now) is another Karna fan that believes in the theory of Atimaharathi as it was spread by a useless site like wikipedia.com. In reality during the Mahabharata their was no Atimaharathi, their was just Ardharatha, Ratha, Maharatha and Atiratha. Some theories would talk about the story of an Ekaratha which is possible, but their is no evidence in the text for that. Anyways here is another Karna fan known as Zankhana Jadeja who commented using multiple dots
  6. Racism, they themselves claim to love the character of karna because they believe that he was not a racist but a messiah for lower castes and hard workers everywhere, they consider Karna's suta caste to be that of a Sudra/Dalit. Yet they themselves insult hard workers and people that look like Sudra's and Dalits. For example their leader Niraj Sharma posted a picture of an Arjuna fan, calling him not only a werewolf but also a third class person, meaning that Niraj Sharma himself (despite being a fan of Karna) is a casteist man who discriminates against others.
    Just for the sake of being civil i won't show the whole entire image.
  7. Lying, one of their most common fraud schemes is that they claim to be Krishna bhakts. Yet they themselves insult Krishna, their leader insults Krishna, Pavan Ingle uses vulgar/foul language against Krishna.
    and over here
Anyways that's enough for now i will elaborate more and update this post (hopefully later on today) once i have time.
Posted by at 14 comments:

Sunday, May 13, 2018

The bigger purpose/politics behind the Kavacha Kundala of Vasusena Karna.

The armor and earrings of Karna being taken away is a very famous incident in the Mahabharata of Vyasa, at the very least for the character of Karna it is considered one of his highlight moments.

Also first of all Duryodhana admitted that it was not Indra who was begging to karna for this kavach but instead it was Karna who was begging to Indra for the Vasavi dart.
Quote:
The dart that had been begged (of Shakra as a boon) by Karna for the slaughter of Arjuna was baffled by thee through Ghatotkacha!
Analysis: Karna probably begged like a needy person because he knew he can never defeat Arjuna in a fair battle. What a coward.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m09/m09061.htm

Cross references of his Kavacha Kundala trade (all outside of Vana Parva).

And Indra desirous of benefiting his own son Phalguni (Arjuna), assuming the form of a Brahmana, approached Vasusena on one occasion and begged of him his natural armour. Thus asked Karna took off his natural armour, and joining his hands in reverence gave it unto p. 237 [paragraph continues] Indra in the guise of a Brahmana. And the chief of the celestials accepted the gift and was exceedingly gratified with Karna's liberality. He therefore, gave unto him a fine dart, saying, 'That one (and one only) among the celestials, the Asuras, men, the Gandharvas, the Nagas, and the Rakshasas, whom thou desirest to conquer, shall be certainly slain with this dart.'
2nd reference - http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03308.htm
"Thereupon, O king, taking the blazing dart, Karna began to peel off his natural mail. And beholding Karna cutting his own body, the entire host of celestials and men and Danavasset up a leonine roar. And Karna betrayed no contortions of face while peeling his mail. And beholding that hero among men thus cutting his body with an weapon, smiling ever and anon, celestial kettle-drums began to be played upon and celestial flowers began to be showered on him. And Karna cutting off the excellent mail from his person, gave it to Vasava, still dripping. And cutting off his ear-rings also from off his ears, he made them over to Indra. And it is for this fact that he came to be called Karna. And Sakra, having thus beguiled Karna that made him famous in the world, thought with a smile that the business of the sons of Pandu had already been completed. And having done all p. 600 this, he ascended to heaven. And hearing that Karna had been beguiled, all the sons of Dhritarashtra became distressed and shorn of pride. And the sons of Pritha, on the other hand, learning that such plight had befallen the son of the charioteer, were filled with joy."
3rd reference - http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m05/m05169.htm
Without sense, this one hath been deprived of his natural coat of mail. Always kind, he hath also been deprived of his celestial ear-rings.
4th reference - http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07176.htm
Indeed, that dart, O king, which he had kept and adored for years for (achieving) the slaughter of Pandu's son in battle, that foremost of darts which Sakra himself had given to the Suta's son in exchange for the latter's ear-rings, that blazing and terrible missile twined with strings and which seemed to thirst for blood, that fierce weapon which looked like the very tongue of the Destroyer or the sister of Death himself, that terrible and effulgent dart, Naikartana, was now hurled at the Rakshasa.
5th reference - http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07177.htm
For thy good, Karna was divested of his ear-rings by Sakra with the help of an illusion. Similarly was that subjugator of hostile towns deprived of his (natural) armour. Indeed, because Karna, cutting off his (natural) armour and his brilliant car-rings, gave them unto Sakra, it is for that he came to be called Vaikartana. Karna now seems to me to be like an angry snake of virulent poison stupefied by power of incantation, or like a fire of mild flames. From that time, O mighty-armed one, when the high-souled Sakra gave that dart unto Karna in exchange for the latter's ear-rings, and celestial armour, that dart, viz., which has slain Ghatotkacha, from that time, Vrisha, having obtained it, had always regarded thee as slain in battle!
6th reference - http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m12/m12a005.htm
When, for thy good, the Lord of the celestials begged of him his (natural) coat of mail and ear-rings, stupefied by celestial illusion, he gave away those precious possessions. Deprived of his car-rings and divested of his natural armour, he was slain by Arjuna in Vasudeva's presence.
Karna followed all of Surya's orders and acted exactly the way Surya told him to.
Therefore, when the lord of the celestials will ask the ear-rings, thou shouldst, O son, refuse him! Repeating again and again answers fraught with various reasons, thou wilt, O sinless one, be able to remove the eagerness of the lord of the celestial for the possession of the ear-rings. Do thou, O Karna, after Purandara's purpose by urging answers fraught with reason and grave import and adorned with sweetness and suavity.
Hearing these words, Kama, said, 'O Brahmana, I will give thee homestead land, and fair damsels, and kine, and fields; but my mail and ear-rings I am unable to give thee!'" Vaisampayana continued, "Although thus urged with various words by Karna, still, O chief of the Bharata race, that Brahmana did not ask for any other boon. And although Karna sought to pacify him to the best of his power, and worshipped him duly, yet that best of Brahmanas did not ask for any other boon.
'If O son, thou givest away thy ear-rings to the wielder of the thunder-bolt, O thou of mighty strength, thou shouldst also, for the purpose of securing victory, speak unto him, saying,--O thou of a hundred sacrifices, I shall give thee ear-rings under a condition.--Furnished with the ear-rings, thou art certainly incapable of being slain by any being. Therefore, it is, O son, that desirous of beholding thee slain in battle by Arjuna, the destroyer of the Danavas desireth to deprive thee of thy ear-rings. Repeatedly adoring with truthful words that lord of the celestials, viz., Purandara armed with weapons incapable of being frustrated, do thou also beseech him, saying, 'Give me an infallible dart capable of slaying all foes, and I will, O thousand-eyed deity, give the ear-rings with the excellent coat of mail!' On this condition shouldst thou give the ear-rings unto Sakra. With that dart, O Karna, thou wilt slay foes in battle: for, O mighty-armed one, that dart of the chief of the celestials doth not return to the hand that hurleth it, without slaying enemies by hundreds and by thousands!'"
Hearing these words of Indra, Karna was filled with delight and seeing that his purpose was about to be accomplished he approached Vasava, and intent upon obtaining a dart incapable of being baffled, he addressed Indra, saying, 'Do thou, O Vasava, in exchange for my coat of mail and ear-rings, give me a dart incapable of being baffled, and competent to destroy hosts of enemies when arrayed in order of battle!' Thereupon, O ruler of earth, fixing his mind for a moment on the dart (for bringing it there), Vasava thus spake unto Karna, 'Do thou give me thy ear-rings, and the coat of mail born with thy body, and in return take this dart on these terms!
Proof that Surya was pro Arjuna
When Bayu together with Indra and Suryya united as allies for the success of the sons of Kunti, and the beasts of prey (by their inauspicious presence) were putting us in fear, then, O Sanjaya, I had no hope of success.
People might say that Dhritarashtra was talking about the sons of Kunti so he included Karna, but the truth is that he also said that he had no hope of success. So he was talking about something negative towards the Kouravas (the side that Karna was supporting).

Proof that Indra tried to kill Arjuna
In Khandava-Daha:
Then Sakra the lord of the celestials, riding on his white elephant, rushed at those heroes, and taking up his thunderbolt which could never go in vain, hurled it with great force. And the slayer of Asuras said unto the gods, 'These two are slain.' Beholding the fierce thunderbolt about to be hurled p. 444 by their chief, the celestials all took up their respective weapons.
Logic suggests that Indra was intending to kill them (Krishna and Arjuna) as he says they will be killed. http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01230.htm

Indra already knew that Surya had met Karna before he would approach him to take his armor:
Thereupon Sakra replied, 'Even before I had come to thee, Surya had known of my purpose and without doubt, p. 599 it is he that hath unfolded everything unto thee! O Karna, be it as thou wishest! O son, except the thunder-bolt alone, tell me what it is that thou desirest to have!
So Indra was already prepared to give something to Karna. http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03308.htm So it was probably a plan by Surya to make Indra give a celestial dart to Karna. As Karna was asking for what Surya wanted Karna to have not what Karna himself wanted to have.

Even Karna had the sign of the Vajra on his palms, indicating that he was a bhakt of Indra.
Quote:
He became exceedingly cheerless and unable to stay before Karna. The son of Radha then, pursuing Yudhishthira, the son of Pandu, cleansed himself by touching him in the shoulder with his own fair hand (the palm of which was) graced with the auspicious signs of the thunderbolt, the umbrella, the hook, the fish, the tortoise, and the conchshell, and desired to seize him by force. He then remembered the words of Kunti.
Analysis: 
It is clearly written that Karna's arms were adorned with the sacred symbol of the thunderbolt, also Indra is considered the ideal king on earth. So Karna being a king would indeed make Indra an inspiration for himself.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08049.htm

 Even Karna indirectly tells his father Surya that it was not Indra who cheated him rather it was Indra who was cheated by me.
Quote:
And by dispelling on the field of battle the fears of the affrighted that may beg for their lives, and relieving old men and boys and Brahmanas from terror and anxiety, I will win excellent fame and the highest heaven. My fame is to be protected with the sacrifice of even my life. Even this, know thou, is my vow! By giving away such a valuable gift to Maghavan disguised as a Brahmana, I p. 587 will, O god, acquire in this world the most exalted state.'"
Analysis: Even karna had a lot of things to gain out of this kundala sharing incident.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03298.htm
It also helped in the loss of fear that Yudhishthira was plagued with:
"What, O Brahmana, was that great fear entertained by Yudhishthira in respect of Karna, for which Lomasa had conveyed to the son of Pandu a message of deep import from Indra in these words, That intense fear of thine which thou dost never express to any one, I will remove after Dhananjaya goeth from hence? And, O best of ascetics, why was it that the virtuous Yudhishthira never expressed it to any one?"
As we can see through this incident many things happened.
But it seems like the only people who fail to look deeply into this incident to find out what was accomplished truly, are just karna fans. They have not understood Mahabharata and have not learned anything from it.
These are things that occurred due to the loss of the Kavacha Kundala.
  1. Karna won great fame.
  2. Karna gained the celestial sakti dart of Indra.
  3. Indra removed the fears of Yudhishthira.
  4. Ghatotkaca was killed so Krishna did not have to kill him.
  5. Karna succeeded in getting at-least one major kill to his name, killing a warrior like Ghatotkaca.
  6. Due to Ghatotkaca's death another aukshouni of troops in the kuru army perished with him.
So it was all a win win situation for everyone, both sides (Kaurava/Pandava/Arjuna/Karna) benefited from this. So don't try to use it as a reason to overrate Karna and underrate Arjuna.
Krishna to Arjuna:
Hidimva's son also, I have slain by the employment of means, viz., through Karna with his dart. If Karna had not slain him with his dart in great battle, I myself would have had to slay Bhima's son Ghatotkacha. From desire of benefiting you, I did not slay him before. That Rakshasa was inimical to Brahmanas and sacrifices. Because he was a destroyer of sacrifices and of a sinful soul, therefore hath he been thus slain. O sinless one, by that act as a means, the dart given by Sakra, hath also been rendered futile.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07178.htm
It was clearly not taken away to help Arjuna. Instead it was taken away to help Karna the most, then Krishna and Yudhishthira. Do you honestly Indra would not give Arjuna a weapon to counter this? Like Sammohana was impossible for Karna to counter?
But just like Hastinapore was the kingdom of blind people (as their king Dhritarashtra was a blind man) so are Karna supporters are blind to the obvious facts brought to the table when it comes to the Kundala-harana incident.
Proof that Indra also saved Karna's life.
Kunti to baby Karna:
And may the Adityas and the Vasus, the Rudras and the Sadhyas, the Viswadevas and the Maruts, and the cardinal points with the great Indra and the regents presiding over them, and, indeed, all the celestials, protect thee in every place!
Analysis: The words are clearly stated their "protect thee in every place". Indra never wronged karna, karna must have been indebted to Indra.
Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03306.htm
By the way it was only his ear-rings (kundalas) that mattered not his kavacha (armor). Another thing you can learn from this is that Indra did not even care about Arjuna,a s he desired his death, he had another purpose for going to Karna. And that was to kill Ghatotkaca and save Krishna.
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