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Though uncle x niece and cousin x cousin relationships do not qualify as incest according to the dictionary definition & most human beings for me cousin marriages and niece x uncle (or aunty x nephew) are still just as bad. So i consider those to be the equivalent of incest.
=Cousin Marriage was a normal thing in human history.
MACEDON.
Antiochus married his mother;
"Antiochus married his stepmother, Stratonice, daughter of Demetrius Poliorcetes. The ancient sources report that his elderly father reportedly instigated the marriage after discovering that his son was in danger of dying of lovesickness."
Note - they were not biologically related but she still was a secondary spouse of his dad.
Antiochus's daughter married a cousin.
[Quote]
"Apama married her maternal third cousin the Greek King Magas of Cyrene. The maternal grandmothers of Apama and Magas were paternal first cousins. The fathers of their grandmothers were brothers."
2nd Quote;
"Magas then married Apama II, his third maternal cousin and one of the daughters of Seleucid King Antiochus I Soter and Stratonice of Syria. Antiochus I used his marital alliance to foment a pact to invade Egypt. Apama II and Magas had a daughter called Berenice II, who was their only child."
Alexander's younger sister married his mothers brother;
"A large, international, extravagant wedding between Cleopatra and her uncle Alexander I was held in 336 BC."
His older sister did this;
"May still have been alive at the time of her daughter's marriage to Philip's nephew Amyntas IV."
"Cynane's father gave her in marriage to her cousin Amyntas, by whom she had a daughter and by whose death she was left a widow in 336 BC."
Explanation - the mother's name is Audata, the sisters name was Cynane. She shared the same father as Alexander.
Macedonian conclusion - that is 4 examples i have given that show such affairs & relationship's that are these days deemed to be taboo/illicit during the modern yuga (1900-2024) were fairly accepted and common during ancient eras.
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PERSIA.
1st ('Parysatis' x 'Ochus')
She was the half-sister of Xerxes II, Sogdianus, and Darius II. She married her half-brother Darius II and had 13 sons, of which four survived to adulthood: Artaxerxes II, Cyrus the Younger, Ostanes, & Oxathres. Along with a daughter Amestris.
[Ending]
Source in the citation of Wikipedia; https://www.livius.org/articles/person/artaxerxes-ii-mnemon/
Wiki source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parysatis
Logic - the name Ochus was the original name for "Darius II" here the true definition of incest is used as it was a sibling x sibling relationship instead of cousin marriage incidents (what i normally use as my claim that inbreeding was common).
2nd {Amestris & Terituchmes}
"Terituchmes, loved one of his half-sisters more than his intended bride Amestris, Darius II and Parysatis's daughter."
Note - it's probably only a one way attraction, like Terituchmes was aroused by Amestris but Amestris never liked Terituchmes (atleast not in a romantic way).
3rd (a monarch with too many spouses and offspring);
"Artaxerxes II had more than 115 sons from 350 wives."
Comment - yes it is not incest but still counts as a quote which validates the claim that Ravan was not a negative as his hate club claims he is. Ravan is considered a debauch cause he was a womanizer with over a hundred spouses or cause he's accused of being a rapist.
But in reality he was not that different compared to any other historical monarch of the human species. Though ravan's military power and physical strength was much greater than the average monarch's when it came to actions/crimes he was not different from them at all.
4th (Darius was the second person in Eurasia to be called great after "Cyrus" before "Xerxes" & "Alexander").
Yet he did this;
[quotE]
"Darius married his niece Phratagune, with whom he had two sons, Abrokomas and Hyperantes."
"Phratagune's father gave her in marriage to his brother, her uncle, Darius the Great. This was ostensibly because Artanes had no male heirs and marrying his daughter to his brother, and offering his entire estate as her dowry, would enable his fortune to remain in the family."
I think i should leave the persian topic their and move to another ethnicity/dynasty.
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MUGHALS.
1st example;
[quote]
"He married twice, both of whom were princesses of the Imperial family and his cousins. He had two sons and two daughters."
2nd example;
"Bairam Khan was assassinated by a band of Afghans in 1561. After his death, Salima was subsequently married to her first cousin, Akbar."
Note: Since bairam was somewhat of a father figure/guardian for Akbar this's similar to him marrying his own mom, but in terms of DNA they were cousins.
3rd;
"Shuja first married Bilqis Banu Begum, the daughter of Rustam Mirza (son of Murad Mirza and grandson of Akbar), on the night of Saturday, 5 March 1633."
4th (cousin's together again);
"When Sipihr Shikoh, son of her eldest brother Dara married Aurangzeb's daughter Zubdat-un-Nissa in 1673, Gauhar Ara and her maternal cousin Hamida Banu Begum arranged the wedding ceremony."
5th (uncle x niece);
"The marriage of Dara's granddaughter Salima Banu Begum (whom Gauhar Ara had adopted/raised) & Aurangzeb's fourth son Prince Muhammad Akbar."
6th.
Quote;
"Nadira was a half-cousin of her future husband, Dara Shikoh, as her father was the older half-brother of Shikoh's father."
Explanation; Her father was a grandson of Akbar (Parviz Mirza) her mother was a grand-daughter of Akbar (Jahan Begum) and her father in law is a grandson of Akbar too (Shah Jahan)
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MOURYANS.
Chandragoopt's wife Durdhara is a cousin. If he did marry a daughter of a Nanda monarch then it was probably someone that isn't helena or durdhara but rather a nameless woman who is referred to by the name "Nandini" so Durdhara was never a child of dhananand or a sister of dhananand.
Quote;
"Chandragupta Maurya was married off to his distant cousin, from his maternal side, one of his eldest uncle’s daughter, Durdhara."
[End]
Ashok got his daughter married to a nephew.
Quote;
"Sangamitta's parents were Emperor Ashoka and his first wife, Devi, who was a Buddhist."
"She was married at the age of 14 to Agribrahma, a nephew of Emperor Ashoka, who was also an Arhant."
Logic - i guess we can see where the mughals drew inspiration from, they were inspired from the mauryans! Who were in turn inspired by the kauravas.
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INDIA.
Sasavindu.
He had 1 lakh wives;
"That high-souled monarch had one hundred thousand wives."
And 100 million sons;
"From each of those wives were born a thousand sons. All those princes were endued with great prowess. They performed millions of sacrifices."
In santi parva its bhisma that mentions Sasavindu in Drona Parva it is Narada who spoke of him.
An alternate quote said he had 10 thousand wives:
[quote]
"Sasavindu had ten thousand wives. Upon each of them their lord begat a thousand sons, and so the tale reached ten hundred thousands. Those sons refused to call anybody else save themselves as Prajapatis. The ancient Brahmanas bestowed an appellation on the creatures of the world, derived from Sasavindu. That extensive race of the Prajapati Sasavindu became in time the progenitor of the Vrishni race."
Note: agreed that it is not incest, cousin relationship or niece/uncle marriage, but clearly it is not a good thing at all, now with so many new humans born guess what? It will be harder for them to find a spouse that is not a child of their father, who knows how many daughters they had? Clearly this was a disgusting mistake, i dont see how Sasavindu was a more dharmic, positive character/individual than Ravan. For his overpopulation decision & lack of birth control i do think it would have been a better decision for the environment and burden of the Earth that Vishnu made his priority to be the destruction of king Sasavindu instead of Sahastarjun/Ravan cause those 2 guys didnt do this much damage to the human race, sometimes creation is also a bad move.
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Duryodhan's kashi wife.
"O Karna, proceeding to the city of Kasi, alone with thy bow, thou hadst crushed the kings in battle for procuring a bride for the Kuru king!"
Logic - since it is mentioned that karna went alone that means duryodhana was not with him this time, another difference (from the kalinga incident) is the name of Kasi being mentioned istead, so clearly duryodhana had more than one wife, besides his kalinga wife their was a daughter of balram & a raaj kumari of kashi state. The kuru king here is likely duryodhan unless their are people who actually think dhritrashtra ordered karna to get a wife for himself from kashi, even if this was a wife of dhritrashtra instead then it is worse. Cause that mean's that Dhritrashtra wanted to get a spouse from the household of his own mother (Amvika was a kashi princess too).
Proof that Dhritrashtra is the son of a kashi kumaree;
"Dhritarashtra excelled all in personal strength, while in the three worlds there was no one equal to Vidura in devotion to virtue and in the knowledge of the dictates of morality. And beholding the restoration of the extinct line of Santanu, the saying became current in all countries that among mothers of heroes, the daughters of the king of Kasi were the first."
Logic:
Dhritrashtra's mother had 2 sisters (amva/amvalika) & one brother (the grandfather of duryodhan's wife), so duryodhan's wife had the same great grandfather as he did (the father to ambika, ambalika, amba etc). Thus they had 12.5 % (one eighth 1/8) DNA that matched, still a gross relationship.
Some might compare this to Bheem's wedding (Valandhara) but they ignore that Bheem is not a biological son of Pandu (the one whose blood line connects with kashi royalty) so it isn't the same, not a case of cousin marriage at all.
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Arjuna & Subhadra unfortunately were cousins before becoming husband/wife. I assume that subhadra was the daughter of a wife that Vasudeva had after being set free from jail, since Devaki/Rohini were not his only wives.
Still Subhadra's father Vasudeva had the same biological father that Arjuna's mother Kunti did, so he and subhadra share the same grandparent's (king Surasena), meaning 25 percent of their DNA matches eachothers.
I am a fan of arjuna but not a very big fan or a tard, so i admit he did this, my assumption is that it was to ensure that the Yadavas do not abandon the side of the pandava's and not out of romantic feelings at all. He wanted to bind the yadava clan into a matrimonial alliance. I have to be unbiased and admit that this was also a negative deed conducted by him. Due to hatred for karna's fanbase i often ignore the flaws of Arjuna's character too.
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BRITISH.
"Queen Victoria and Prince Albert were first cousins, having shared the same grandfather."
"Queen Victoria’s uncle, King George IV, married his first cousin Caroline."
"King Edward VII also married his cousin, albeit a more distant one."
"King George V married his cousin, in this case, his second cousin, Mary of Teck."
"King Henry VII, himself married his cousin Elizabeth of York, who shared a great-great-grandparent, John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, which makes them third cousins."
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HAPSBURG.
[Quote]
"The kings of the Spanish Habsburg dynasty (1516-1700) frequently married close relatives in such a way that uncle-niece, first cousins and other consanguineous unions were prevalent in that dynasty. In the historical literature, it has been suggested that inbreeding was a major cause responsible for the extinction of the dynasty."
Quote;
"From 1527 to 1661, when Philip II and Charles II were born respectively, the Spanish royal families had 34 children, 10 (29.4%) of them died before 1 year, and 17 (50.0%) of these children died before 10 years."
Quote;
The highest levels of inbreeding in major populations have been found in urban Pondicherry (South India) and among army families in Pakistan where 54.9% and 77.1% of marriages are consanguineous, respectively…In Pondicherry 20.2% of marriages are uncle-niece and 31.3% first cousins, whereas in the Pakistan study 62.5% of marriages are between first cousins.
Quote:
"There were many marriages between first and third cousins within the Hapsburg family, as well as between uncles and nieces and more remote family members. This meant that down the generations, with no let up on the amount of intermarriage, the degree of genetic inbreeding gradually built up."
{Quote}
"Philip III was the product of extensive inbreeding. His father, Philip II, a product of marriage between first cousins, married his niece, Anna of Austria, herself the product of a cousin couple. Philip III in turn married his first cousin once removed, Margaret of Austria. This pattern would continue in the next generation, ultimately culminating in the end of the Spanish Habsburg line."
=
EGYPT.
1st example;
"Shamaa stated that Ahmose had two main wives, pointing out that they were his sisters."
2nd example;
"Their belief that the king and queen are considered gods, and it was normal for a god to marry his sister."
Logic - this link/article is from Feb 2021, while the one below (which can sometimes be used by historian's to refute the information in the previous link) is of the date August 2020.
So we can assume the author changed their mind & no longer believes that it was normal to call your wife the word "sister" as she is another human being of your species/ethnicity so in that sense she's your sister too due to her being of the same race.
https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/4/91024/Incestuous-marriages-did-not-prevail-in-Ancient-Egypt Or i guess another way of looking at it is that since in Greece the 2 character's that were gay lovers (patroclus/achilles) were also brothers in arms so they would call eachother "bro" etc.
3rd example:
"The marriage of Amenhotep III to his daughter Sitamun. Some historians say that she is his sister, the daughter of Thutmose IV, not his daughter."
4th example.
Quote:
"The second bizarre confirmed incestuous incident is the marriage of Akhenaten to his third daughter."
"As for the third, it is the marriage of Ramesses II to at least two of his daughters, according to Selim Hassan."
6th
"Research including tests on the pharaoh's mummy, discovered in 1922 in the Valley of Kings, showed that his parents had been siblings and he had only paternal grandparents."
7th;
The study revealed that King Tut's parents were siblings, a trend which might have continued in Tut's marriage. "There are rumors that Tut's wife was his sister or half sister. If this is true we have at least two successive generations that had interfamilial marriages, and this is not a good thing" Pusch says.
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Understand my intentions of highlighting these incident's, quotes and passages is NOT justification for Ravan's deeds. My goal is not about making it look like he is a heroic figure or to support incest, my goal is to inform all readers (of this article) and hindus that Ravan was not different (when it comes to his controversial action's) compared to all monarchs of human history and mankind.
What he did is not very different in comparison to what divine character's and god like figures did either as even Krishna married cousins (daughters of his father's sisters) according to Bhagavatam.
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2 separate account's of the Rambha X Ravan incident.
Markandeya's viewpoint;
"O timid lady, entertain thou no fear on account of Ravana, who is censured by the whole world, for, O daughter, thou art safe from him on account of Nalakuvera's curse. Indeed, this wretch had been cursed before for his having violated his daughter-in-law, Rambha. This lustful wretch is not able to violate any woman by force."
Note; according to him she was his daughter in law not Ravan's niece in law.
Uttar Kanda:
Dashagriva answered her in smooth accents, saying "You have said you are my daughter-in-law! For those who have but one husband, this argument is valid but in Devaloka, the Gods have established a law that is said to be eternal, that Apsaras have no appointed consorts nor are the Gods monogamous!" Thus speaking, the Rakshasa, who had stationed himself on the mountain ridge, inflamed with desire, ravished Rambha and, when she was released from his embrace, her garlands and her ornaments spoiled and torn away, she resembled a river where a great elephant, disporting himself, muddying the waters, has borne away the banks.
Logic; this argument provided by Ravan does hold weight cause apsaras are just that, they do not have husbands, neither are they limited to just one individual. Their very existence was basically to be porn stars.
Their is a 3rd in Jain Ramayana;
Nalakūbara’s wife, Uparambhā, fell in love with Daśāsya and sent a woman-messenger who said to him “Uparambhā, like the Śrī of victory embodied, wishes to dally with you. Her mind has been carried away by your virtues. Only in body does she remain there. She will make the vidya Āśālī, the guardian of the wall, as well as herself, submissive to you, honored sir. By it you will capture the city and Nalakūbara and the divine cakra, Sudarśana, will fall to you here.”
Note: here Daśāsya is another nickname of Ravan.
Golden words of Ravan;
"Fair lady, honor your husband who has shown respect to me. You are now in the place of a guru to me because of giving me the vidyā. I look upon other married women as sisters and mothers. You are the daughter of Kāmadhvaja and Sundarī. Do not let any stain come from you, inimical to both families."
Logic - i do hope the sundari here is not Malayavan's wife, cause that would mean Ravan's aunt Rambha married his nephew Nalakuvera.
The story goes that she taught Ravan the wisdom of "Āśālikā" through which he's able to get rid of the flame walls in Durlangha (capital town of Nalakuvera's AOE). After this Vibeeshan captured Nala Kuvera himself. A O E mean's area of control.
If you read the link for this chapter it is Vibeeshan who advised Ravan to try his hand in deciet and told him to just make a false promise to Rambha that he would make love to her after the battle is over, but then once the city is won Ravan refused to even touch Rambha let alone copulate with her. But ravan haters misunderstood this as him raping her.
=
Rambha was older than Ravan in age cause she existed in the yuga of Visvamitra. Her engaged future husband Nala Kuvera was a son of Kuber but Kuber himself (despite being ravan's brother) was not in the same generation/age-group at all. Kuber was much old compared to Ravan so his son would be also elder or possibly the same age as Ravan
Quote: "On hearing the sentence of Indra she adopted an unexcelled physique, and on becoming a pulchritudinous damsel she started to entice Vishvamitra with giggly grins. [1-64-8]"
My Claim: How can she be so pure when she is willing to arouse men that are not Nalakuver (the man who she claims to be engaged to)?
Mahabharat has a cross reference to the incident;
"For disturbing his devotions, the famous celestial nymph Rambha of fine bracelets, was cursed and metamorphosed into a rock."
Finally Rambha did not have a blood connection to Ravan, they did not share a common parent/ancestor, so it was not incest. If anything ravan's real crime would be spread of HIV/STD's but him violating Rambha is not a deed which can be used to defame or dishonor his character.
Main CONCLUSION: The reason ravan's haters point out to the rambha incident so often is cause they desire to distract ramayana readers from the other incidents which ca be seen as embarrassing for overrated characters.
Examples would be parshuram slaughtering his own mother, his bhakts would not want u to pay attention to parshuram's crime instead they'd want u to focus on 'ravan x rambha' similarly the devotees of hanuman will ignore the fact punjiksthala (hanuman's biological mother) was conquered by ravan instead they highlight incidents like the death of aksha kumar instead.
Because Parshuram doing something incorrect is not acceptable so they ignore it & hanumans mother getting EFFED by Ravan is also embarrassing for hanutati and his devotees so they give attention to rambha instead of punjiksthala.
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