Sunday, July 29, 2018

Details about Arjuna's celestial weapons

These are all the weapons of Arjuna (the one and only hero of Mahabharata). Please note that i wont be giving you any "fake" weapons like karna fans do. I will prove everything that i say using actual text.
  • 1. Sudarshan Chakra
Quote (to prove Arjuna has it):
That patience with which, Yuga after Yuga, thou hadst slain persons having the quality of darkness for their weapons, as also terrible Kshatriyas, and Asuras born of pride, in many a battle--with that patience do thou slay Karna today. Putting forth thy might, strike off the head of that foe of thine with this Sudarsana, of edge keen as a razor, that I give unto thee, like Sakra striking off the head of his foe Namuci, with the thunderbolt.
Analysis: Krishna claimed that Arjuna killed people every "yuga" and that he could very easily utilize the Sudarsan chakra to kill Karna. So krishna would definitely know if Arjuna was skilled in using this weapon or not.
Description of the weapon:
And Pavaka then gave unto Krishna a discus with an iron pole attached to a hole in the centre. And it was a fiery weapon and became his favourite. Having obtained that weapon, Krishna also became equal to the task. Pavaka then, addressing Krishna, said, 'With this, O slayer of Madhu, thou shalt be able without doubt to vanquish in battle even foes that are not human. With this weapon, without doubt, thou shalt be superior in battle to men and gods, and Rakshasas and Pisachas, and Daityas and Nagas. And thou shalt certainly be able with this to smite all. And, O Madhava, hurled by thee in battle at thy foes, this weapon will irresistibly slay the enemy and again come back into thy hands.'
Analysis:
The weapon came with a boon, that it would make it's wielder superior to all men (like karna) gods (like shiva, vishnu, indra etc), and rakshasas (like Ravan, ghatotkaca etc). It would come back into it's wielders hands like a magnet.
  • 2. Adityastra
Quote:
When that darkness was dispelled frightful waves of water appeared. For drying up those waters, Arjuna applied the weapon called Aditya. And in consequence of that weapon, the waters were almost dried up.
Analysis: The effect of this weapon was similar to the Vayavyastra as the Adityastra would counter the waves of water and it would dry it up. This was a field affect weapon.

  • 3. Bhaumastra
Quote:
And by the Bhauma weapon, he created land, and by the Parvatya weapon, he brought mountains into being.
Analysis: Based on the above text this weapon has the ability to materialize and create land, perhaps earthbend or create earthquakes.
  • 4. Raudrastra
Quote:
Thereupon collecting (my energies) in fight, I (bowed down) unto that god of gods, Raudra, and saying, 'May welfare attend on all beings!' I fixed that mighty weapon which, celebrated under the name of Raudra, is the destroyer of all foes. Then I beheld a male person having three heads, nine eyes, three faces, and six arms. And his hair was flaming like fire or the sun. And, O slayer of foes, for his dress, he had mighty serpents, putting out their tongues. And saying, O best of the Bharatas, the dreadful and eternal Raudra, I being free from fear, set it on the Gandiva; and, bowing unto the three-eyed Sarva of immeasurable energy, let go (the weapon), with the object of vanquishing those foremost of the Danavas, O Bharata.
Analysis: 3 Heads, 9 Eyes, 3 Faces & 6 Arms.
  • 5. Pasupata
Quote:
Verily, that shaft was the excellent Pasupata that mighty and terrible weapon, which is without a second, indescribable for its power, and capable of striking every creature with fear. Of vast proportions, it seemed to constantly vomit sparks of fire. Possessed of one foot, of large teeth, and a thousand heads and thousand Stomachs, it has a thousand arms, a thousand tongues, and a thousand eyes. Indeed, it seemed to continually vomit fire. O thou of mighty arms, that weapon is superior to the Brahma, the Narayana, the Aindra, the Agneya, and the Varuna weapons. Verily, it is capable of neutralising every other weapon in the universe. It was with that weapon that the illustrious Mahadeva had in days of yore, burnt and consumed in a moment the triple city of the Asuras. With the greatest ease, O Govinda, Mahadeva, using that single arrow, achieved that feat. That weapon, shot by Mahadeva's arms, can, without doubt consume in half the time taken up by a twinkling of the eyes the entire universe with all its mobile and immobile creatures. In the universe there is no being including even Brahma and Vishnu and the deities, that are incapable of being slain by that weapon.
Analysis: 1000 Heads, 1000 Eyes, 1000 Stomachs, 1000 Tongues & 1000 Arms. Arjuna could even kill Brahma and Visnu with this weapon. Using it he is the best. Not much said about shiva here though.....
Proof it could nuetralize all other weapons including Narayanastra:
Verily, that shaft was the excellent Pasupata that mighty and terrible weapon, which is without a second, indescribable for its power, and capable of striking every creature with fear. Of vast proportions, it seemed to constantly vomit sparks of fire. Possessed of one foot, of large teeth, and a thousand heads and thousand Stomachs, it has a thousand arms, a thousand tongues, and a thousand eyes. Indeed, it seemed to continually vomit fire. O thou of mighty arms, that weapon is superior to the Brahma, the Narayana, the Aindra, the Agneya, and the Varuna weapons. Verily, it is capable of neutralising every other weapon in the universe.
  • 6. Antardhana
Quote:
By the Antardhana weapon all these were made to disappear. Now the beloved one of his preceptor (Arjuna) appeared tall and now short; now he was seen on the yoke of his car, and now on the car itself; and the next moment he was on the ground.
Analysis: It appeared as if this was a magical weapon that could warp reality or cause confusion in people's eyes and the way they viewed Arjuna. Everything Arjuna did before was caused to dissapear due to this weapon.
    • 7. Vayavyastra
    Quote:
    Hearing those words of his, Dhananjaya with great speed dispelled, by means of the Vayavya weapon, that arrowy downpour shot by his foes. Then the illustrious Vayu (the presiding deity of that mighty weapon) bore away crowds of Samsaptakas with steeds and elephants and cars and weapons, as if these were dry leaves of trees. Borne away by the wind, O king, they looked highly beautiful, like flights of birds, O monarch, flying away from trees.
    Analysis: It seems like this was a different level of the weapon and it may have summoned the god Vayu to fight for Arjuna. It had the power to control the wind and air and move people by its will. Throwing opponents away and tossing them. It could make it look like Karna was running. it could also blow away any arrows that are coming towards you.
    • 8. Brahmastra
    Quote:
    Thereupon, Partha shot the Brahma weapon and nearly exterminated them all. Hundreds upon hundreds of arms with bows and arrows and bowstrings in grasp, cut off from trunks, and hundreds upon hundreds of standards and steeds and charioteers and car-warriors, fell down on the ground. Huge elephants, well-equipped and resembling foremost hills over-grown with woods or masses of clouds, afflicted with Partha's shafts and deprived of riders, fell down on the earth. Many elephants again, with riders on their backs, crushed by means of Arjuna's shafts, fell down, deprived of life, shorn of the embroidered cloths on their backs, and with their housings torn.
    Analysis: The brahmastra was a weapon that would create multiple arrows, due to Arjuna's skill he was able to handle it and aim it correctly at his foes cutting off their body parts. This brahmastra almost killed all the sampsaptakas (their were lakhs of them alive).
    • 9. High brahmastra
    Quote:
    "People say that thou art a master of the high brahmastra, that mighty means (for achieving the destruction of foes). Do thou then, O Savyasaci, use another weapon of the same kind." Thus addressed by his brother, Savyasaci used a second weapon of the kind. With that, Partha of abundant energy shrouded all the points of the compass, cardinal and subsidiary, with arrows sped from gandiva that resembled fierce snakes and were like the blazing rays of the sun.
    Analysis: Bhima claimed that Arjuna was a master of the high brahmastra, and so did many others, and he did defeat Karna many times so he clearly is. Arjuna used a high brahmastra over here and it just basically poured so many arrows, such a large amount that it clouded the vision of everyone else and covered them. It was similar to a machine gun. It's a weapon of the "same kind". Arjuna basicaly blotted out the sun.
    • 10. Brahmashira
    Quote:
    Pritha's son Dhananjaya, O child, was acquainted with the weapon called brahmashira. Neither from wrath, nor for thy destruction in battle, did he shoot this weapon. Arjuna, on the other hand, used it for baffling thy weapon. He has again withdrawn it. Having obtained even the brahmastra through thy sire's instructions, the mighty-armed Dhananjaya did not fall off from a kshatriya's duties. Arjuna is possessed of such patience, and such honesty. He is, besides, conversant with every weapon, Why dost thou seek to compass the destruction of such a person with all his brothers? That region where the weapon called brahmashira is baffled by another high weapon suffers a drought for twelve years, for the clouds do not pour a drop of water there for this period.
    Analysis: This weapon had the ability to consume the whole world (as stated in Kmg Mahabharata Adi parva Section 142,143). Also the brahmashira is a weapon that can be used to baffle another person's weapon.
    • 11. Mahendrastra
    Quote:
    Then drawing with his two hands and with great force his beautiful bow Gandiva of immeasurable energy, he invoked with proper mantras the highly wonderful and terrible Mahendra weapon and caused it to appear in the welkin. And with that mighty weapon producing profuse showers of arrows endued with the effulgence of the blazing fire, that high-souled and mighty bowman, decked with diadem and garland of gold, checked the entire Kaurava host. And those shafts from Partha's bow, cutting off the arms, bows, standard-tops, and cars, penetrated into the bodies of the kings and of the huge elephants and steeds of the foe.
    Analysis: This weapon was like a machine gun that issued out many arrows upon arrows in a very short amount of time. Since it was a weapon of the "king" of gods it killed alot of kings. Notice the quote "And in that awful slaughter of kings, heroic combatants were slain and car-warriors with those that guided their cars." It was like an upgraded version of the bhargavastra (a weapon that would have millions of arrows come out of it).
    • 12. Tvashtrastra
    Quote:
    Causing wrinkles to form themselves on his brow, sure indications of wrath, the son of Pandu blew his prodigious conch, called Devadatta, and then he shot the weapon called Tvashtra that is capable of slaying large bodies of foes together. Thereupon, thousands of separate forms started into existence there (of Arjuna himself and of Vasudeva). Confounded by those diverse images after the form of Arjuna, the troops began to strike each other, each regarding the other as Arjuna's self.' 'This is Arjuna!' 'This is Govinda!' 'They are Pandu's son and he is of Yadu's race!' Uttering such exclamations, and deprived of their senses, they slew one another in that battle. Deprived of their senses by that mighty weapon, they slew one another. Indeed, those warriors (while striking one another) looked beautiful like blossoming Kinsukas. Consuming those thousands of arrows shot by them, that (mighty) weapon despatched those heroes to Yama's abode.
    Analysis: This weapon was of high quality. it basically made your opponents fight against each other (so it could only be used against a group, more than one person at a time etc).
    • 13. Paurandarastra
    Quote:
    By the grace of my preceptor I have become accomplished in the Brahma and the Paurandara weapons. I am here to vanquish thee in battle. Therefore, O hero, wait a little.' "Vaisampayana continued, 'Thus addressed (by Arjuna), Karna the adopted son of Radha desisted from the fight, for that mighty chariot-fighter thought that Brahma energy is ever invincible.
    Analysis: Karna was so scared hearing the name of this weapon, that he chose to run away from the battlefield.
    • 14. Sammohanastra
    Quote:
    And warding off with weapons, all the weapons of those bulls among the Kurus, the wielder of the Gandiva who was capable of enduring all foes, evolved another irresistible weapon obtained from Indra, called Sanmohana. And entirely covering the cardinal and other directions with sharp and keen-edged arrows furnished with beautiful feathers, that mighty hero stupefied their senses with the twang of the Gandiva.
    Analysis: The myth of this weapon being able to swoon people and make them unconscious does not seem to be true at all. As the text states warriors became unconscious due to the twang of Arjuna's bowstring. the text does state that the Sanmohan-astra is a weapon of feathered arrows though.
    • 15. Thunderbolt (Vajrastra)
    Quote:
    Hearing those words of his, I then discharged the favourite weapon of the king of the celestials--the dreadful thunderbolt. And inspiring the Gandiva with mantras, I, aiming at the locality of the crags, shot sharpened iron shafts of the touch of the thunder-bolt. And sent by the thunder, those adamantine arrows entered into all those illusions and into the midst of those Nivata-Kavachas. And slaughtered by the vehemence of the thunder, those Danavas resembling cliffs, fell to the earth together in masses.
    Analysis: Using this weapon Arjuna was able to kill the Nivata-kavachas (deadly demons that not even Karna's father Surya could defeat).
    Krishna even says that "among weapons i am Vajra"
    Quote:
    Among weapons I am the thunderbolt, among cows I am (she called) Kamadhuk.
    • 16. Varunastra
    Quote:
    The fire of that weapon consumed them not, in consequence of their having laid aside their weapons, as also in consequence of the force of the Varuna weapon, and owing also to the energy possessed by themselves.
    Analysis: This weapon was shot by Arjuna to protect his brother Bhima from the Narayanastra (shot by Aswathama).
    • 17. Agneyastra
    Quote:
    This fiery weapon (that I shall hurl at thee), Vrihaspati the revered preceptor of Indra, gave unto Bharadwaja, from whom it was obtained by Agnivesya, and from Agnivesya by my preceptor, that foremost of Brahmanas, Drona, who gave it away to me.' Saying these words, the Pandava wrathfully hurled at the Gandharva that blazing weapon made of fire which burnt the Gandharva's chariot in a trice. Deprived of consciousness by the force of that weapon, the mighty Gandharva was falling, head downward, from his chariot.
    Analysis: This is the Agneya weapon. it has the ability to create fire once it is launched. Thanks to this weapon Arjuna swooned the gandharva and destroyed his chariot.
    • 18. Parvatyastra
    Quote:
    And by the Bhauma weapon, he created land, and by the Parvatya weapon, he brought mountains into being.
    Analysis: Thanks to the Parvat astra he could raise mountains out of thin air.
    • 19. Parjanyastra
    Quote:
    By the Agneya weapon, he created fire, and by the Varuna weapon he created water, by the Vayavya weapon, he created air, and by the Parjanya weapon he created clouds.
    Analysis: This weapon was used to create clouds.
    • 20. Aindrastra
    Quote:
    Beholding the brahmastra, Arjuna invoked the Aindra weapon with proper mantras. Inspiring gandiva, its string, and his shafts also, with mantras, that scorcher of foes poured showers like Purandara pouring rain in torrents. Those arrows endued with great energy and power, issuing out of Partha's car, were seen to be displayed in the vicinity of Karna's vehicle.
    Analysis: Perhaps the aindra weapon was a weak one as what to speak of Arjuna? Even warriors like karna have countered this weapon. What happened to karna's brahmastra is not stated.
    • 21. Indrastra
    Quote:
    Beholding that shower of arrows spread over the welkin through the aindra weapon, Partha, endued with great activity, O king, taking up his bow gandiva, and fixing on his bowstring a mighty weapon created by Indra, destroyed that aindra-shower of arrows. Having baffled that arrowy shower caused by the aindra weapon, Partha soon covered the car of Drona's son (with his own arrows).
    Analysis: thanks to this weapon Arjuna succeeded in countering and baffling the Aindrastra of Aswathama.
    • 22. Jyotishkastra
    Quote:
    The latter, however, by means of the weapons called Jyotishka, dispelled that thick and awful darkness.
    Analysis:
    From it's description it was perhaps a counter weapon used to create light or get rid of darkness. Surprising that Arjuna did not ever use this on the fourteenth night.
    • 23. Yama's mace
    Quote:
    O accept this weapon of mine--the mace I wield incapable of being baffled by any body. With this weapon thou wilt achieve great deeds.'" Vaisampayana continued, "O Janamejaya, the son of Pritha then received from Yama that weapon duly, along with the Mantras and rite, and the mysteries of hurling and withdrawing it.
    Analysis: Yama (the god of death) was also a teacher of Arjuna. And he taught him well. He would have destroyed anyone using the mace of death that he just earned. Maybe it was intended to be thrown though not used to hammer at your enemy.
    Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03041.htm

    • 24. Vaishnavastra
    Quote (Kmg Mahabharata):
    The weapons appertaining to Agni, Varuna, Soma, Vayu, and Vishnu, as also those appertaining to Indra, Pasupati, and Paramesthi, and those of Prajapati, Dhatri, Tashtri, Savitri, and Vivaswat, all these are known to Dhananjaya alone in this world of men!
    Quote (Bori Critical Edition):
    ‘“Shantanu’s son glanced at him and said, ‘O king! Transcend your anger and listen to my words. O Duryodhana! You have seen how the intelligent Partha created a stream of water that is cool and bears the fragrance of amrita. There is no one else in this world capable of accomplishing this feat. Agneya, Varuna, Soumya, Vayavya, Vaishnava, Aindra, Pashupata, Brahma, Parameshtha, Prajapatya, Dhatu, Tvashtu, Savitu470 and all the other divine weapons—among all the men on earth, Dhananjaya alone is the one who knows them. So does Krishna, Devaki’s son. But no one else knows them. O son!471 It is impossible to vanquish Pandava in battle.
    Analysis: Whether Arjuna learned this weapon from krishna or went to Devaloka and met Vishnu and learned it from him (no one really knows currently) but the fact remains that he had this weapon with him in his arsenal/quivers. He had all the weapons of Vishnu including the Sudarsana chakra.
    Source: 
    Chapter 976(116)
    Arjuna was the best warrior of Dwapara Yuga, he was the best mace fighter too.

    Thursday, July 12, 2018

    Achievements of Karna - removed as interpolations (later additions) by BORI CE.

    This post is about the feats of Karna that are removed by the scholars of the critical edition of Mahabharata. These achievements of karna are present in translations like KMG, but axed out of the Critical edition as non-canon.
    Note that i will only give screenshots, quotes, and chapter numbers for Bori Mahabharata as their is no link to PDF file.
    Let's get started.
    • Karna stringing the bow of Draupadi
      • Kmg
    Quote:
    And beholding the plight of those monarchs, Karna that foremost of all wielders of the bow went to where the bow was, and quickly raising it strung it and placed the arrows on the string. And beholding the son of Surya--Karna of the Suta tribe--like unto fire, or Soma, or Surya himself, resolved to shoot the mark, those foremost of bowmen--the sons of Pandu--regarded the mark as already shot and brought down upon the ground.
        • Same Kmg says Karna failed
    Quote:
    Then those princes--Karna, Duryodhana, Salwa, Salya, Aswatthaman, Kratha, Sunitha, Vakra, the ruler of Kalinga and Banga, Pandya, Paundra, the ruler of Videha, the chief of the Yavanas, and many other sons and grandsons of kings,--sovereigns of territories with eyes like lotus-petals,--one after another began to exhibit prowess for (winning) that maiden of unrivalled beauty. Adorned with crowns, garlands, bracelets, and other ornaments, endued with mighty arms, possessed of prowess and vigour and bursting with strength and energy, those princes could not, even in imagination, string that bow of extraordinary stiffness.
    Analysis: Aswathama and Shalya were called princes but they were clearly not princes, Shalya was a king, Aswathama was a brahmin's son. And Karna had eyes like lotus petal, only other people that had such eyes (kamalnayan) were Krishna and Arjuna.
    2nd quote:
    "At last when in that assemblage consisting of highly respectable people, all the monarchs had become subjects of derisive talk that foremost of heroes--Jishnu, the son of Kunti--desired to string the bow and placed the arrows on the bow-string."
    Analysis: The word "monarch" is used. Karna was a monarch of Anga and Vanga. So he had to be one of the monarchs that failed, as it says "all" monarchs became the subject of disrespectful language, the monarchs that were in the Swayamvara...
    3rd quote:
    And that bow which Rukma, Sunitha, Vakra, Radha's son, Duryodhana, Salya, and many other kings accomplished in the science and practice of arms, could not even with great exertion, string, Arjuna, the son of Indra, that foremost of all persons endued with energy and like unto the younger brother of Indra (Vishnu) in might, strung in the twinkling of an eye.
    Analysis:
    Their is more evidence (in KMG) for Karna's failure rather than his success in stringing the bow of Draupadi at Swayamvara Parva. And the only "son of Radha" that was a "king" was clearly Karna.
      • Bori
        • Screenshot describing and referencing Karna's failure
        • Proof it was a karna who was different from the Kaurava brothers
          Adi Parva section 177. Bori Critical Edition.
    • Droupadi rejecting Karna
      • Kmg
    Quote:
    But seeing Karna, Draupadi loudly said, 'I will not select a Suta for my lord.' Then Karna, laughing in vexation and casting glance at the Sun, threw aside the bow already drawn to a circle. Then when all those Kshatriyas gave up the task, the heroic king of the p. 375 [paragraph continues] Chedis--mighty as Yama (Pluto) himself--the illustrious and determined Sisupala, the son of Damaghosa, in endeavouring to string the bow, himself fell upon his knees on the ground.
      • Bori
    Not present in the text of BORI mahabharata. Cause as bori described Karna already failed in the swayamvara. He straight up could not even string this metal bow. Karna's name was mentioned among those who failed, and he was clearly not the son of Gandhari, he was equated with Shalya. Also Yuyutsu having the second hand name of "Karna" is removed as an interpolation by Bori so it can't be him either.
    [Karna fails to even lift the bow]
    • Karna conquering Gandharvas (in his digvijaya)
      • KMG translation
        • Note that all they have for this incident in Mahabharata, (whether canon or non-canon) is a third person reference/narrative by Bhisma on his deathbed about Karna's feats.
    Quote:
    Many kings, amongst whom Nagnajit was the foremost, while staying in Girivraja, as also the Amvashthas, the Videhas, and the Gandharvas, were all vanquished by thee.
    Analysis: The text says Gandharvas were vanquished by Karna, they were defeated according to Kmg.
      • Bori ce text
    Quote:
    You went to Girivraja21 and vanquished the kings, with Nagnajit at the forefront, and the Ambashthas, the Videhas and the Gandharas.
    Analysis: According to BORI Karna never defeated any Gandharva in his life. Instead he only conquered the tribe of Gandharas (the people that lived in the kingdom of "Gandhar", Sakuni's people). Just removing the letter "v" was enough to change the identity of karna's victims.
    About the screenshot: It will reduce your hardwork to search for Karna's conquest if you read in between the first time karna is mentioned in the screenshot and stop at the second mention of "Karna".
    Source: CHAPTER 981(4)
    • Karna vanquishing Bhagadatta
      • According to KMG
    Quote:
    Then going to the north, he subdued the sovereigns (of that quarter) and having effected the defeat of Bhagadatta, Radha's son ascended that mighty mountain Himavat, all along fighting his foes.
    Analysis: This is the only legit quote that actually says "Bhagadatta's name" in it. All the other quotes that Karna fans have used are unauthentic to support their claim of Karna defeating Bhagadatta. And it is described in lesser than half of a line.
      • According to BORI
    In bori this defeat of Bhagadatta is not mentioned. It would have been one of the biggest achievements of Karna's lfie yet he never brags about it and no one, i repeat no one, not even Dhritarashtra, Shalya, Krishna, Bhisma and Duryodhana ever talked about this incident. As it is quite obvious Karna had no hopes of defeating Bhagadatta. Their is no place in Bori's translation by Bibek Debroy where it is written that Karna fought with the mighty Bhagadatta.
    • Karna destroying the impenetrable armor of Bhima during the 14th day
      • Proof of his impenetrable armor
        • Kmg translation
    Quote:
    Then Karna pierced the impenetrable armour of Bhima with four and sixty arrows.
        • Bori ce text
    Quote:
    Then Karna used sixty-four arrows to firmly pierce his armour and angrily struck him in the sides with iron arrows that could penetrate the inner organs.
    Analysis: Bori removes the word "impenetrable" and replaces it with just "his armour". Thus the armor of Bhima is ordinary on the fourteenth day according to Bori.
    Chapter: CHAPTER 1083(106)
      • Karna cutting it
    First quote:
    Karna, however, in the dreadful battle, resisting all those shafts with his own, cut off Bhima's armour also with his arrows.
    Second quote:
    Their coats of mail cut off by means of arrows, and their bodies covered with blood, Karna and Bhima then looked like a couple of snakes just freed from their sloughs.
        • Quotes of Bori
    Quote:
    Wishing to kill the son of the suta, the brave and spirited Pandava shot a thousand arrows at him. In that great battle, Karna countered these arrows with arrows of his own and with his arrows, brought down Bhimasena’s armour.
    Analysis: It's clearly not present in bori. The word impenetrable is not their so it means that the armor Karna cut was ordinary not "extraordinary". It was penetrable, not impenetrable, meaning anyone (with a bow/arrows) could achieve what Karna achieved.
    Source: CHAPTER 1088(111)
    Quote:
    They were covered with blood and were as resplendent as the sun that arises at the time of destruction. Blood flowed from the wounds on their bodies. Their armour was shattered by arrows. Bereft of armour, they were as beautiful as snakes that had cast off their skins.
    Analysis: Both warriors had no armor on, if it was impenetrable why would it get shattered by just "arrows"? Something to think about.
    Source: CHAPTER 1088(111)
    • Karna defeating five Pandavas on the 17th day
      • Kmg
    Quote:
    "After that furious battle, producing rivers of blood, had commenced, and when a remnant only of the brave samsaptakas, O Bharata, were left unslaughtered, Dhrishtadyumna, O monarch, with all the kings (on the Pandava side) and those mighty car-warriors--the Pandavas themselves, all rushed against Karna only. Like the mountain receiving a vast body of water, Karna, unaided by anyone, received in that battle all those advancing warriors filled with joy and longing for victory. Those mighty car-warriors encountering Karna, were beat off and broken like a mass of water, and beat back on all sides when it encounters a mountain."
    Analysis: The text simply states "the Pandavas themselves", and that they were beat off and broken. But if you follow the text of this section and the section after that then you will come to udnerstand the truth. Sanjaya said ourselves (meaning our army) led by Karna, and then the Parthas led by Yuddhistira. This implies that when he said Partha, it mean the army of the Pandavas. Just like how when one says “Kurus”, it means the entire Kuru army, not just the warriors that were biologically the descendents of Kuru. Then, the text says that the Pandavas and Dhristadyumna rushed towards Karna. However, the text does not mention “all Pandavas”. Yuddistira and Nakula can also be described as Pandavas, but not “all Pandavas”. So some of the Pandavas rushed to Karna along with Dhrishtadyuma and other warriors. Then Sanjaya says that the warriors that encountered Karna were beaten back. Sanjaya talks about only Satyaki and Dhrishtadyumna fighting a bout with Karna. He doesn’t mention anything about Arjuna, Bhima or the rest of the Pandavas. Their are no mentions of the 5 Pandavas.
        • Basically this is what happened.
          • Karna fought Dhrishtadyumna.
            • Satyaki rescued Dhrishtadyumna.
              • Satyaki fought Karna.
                • Aswathama rescued karna and fought Dhrishtadyumna.
    Source:
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08059.htm Also take a look at this quora answer written by a knowledgeable person (it is based on the Mahabharata). https://www.quora.com/Did-Karna-defeat-all-the-5-Pandavas-in-2-minutes-on-the-17th-day/answer/Maruti-Jai-Walia
      • Bori ce
    Quote:
    With Dhrishtadyumna and all the kings, the maharatha Pandavas rushed against Karna. They were cheerful and attacked in that battle, desiring victory. Alone in that battle, Karna received them, like a mountain receives a flood of water. Having clashed against Karna, those maharathas were shattered and beaten back in all the directions, like a flood of water against a mountain. O great king! The battle that commenced made the body hair stand up.
    Analysis: Here it is the typical wording of "pandavas" just meaning more than one. This does not mean that Karna defeated all five of them as Bori removed the word "all", kmg claims "all" rushed towards karna, while bori does not. Meaning Karna defeated more than one pandava if anything, not all pandavas. and clearly Arjuna was not among them as he was on the other side of the field that day (before the bhargavastra incident).
    Source: Chapter 1192(42)
    • Karna cutting eleven strings of Arjuna's gandiva bow
      • According to Kmg
    Quote:
    Then Karna, with a number of whetted shafts endued with great energy, cut off the string of Arjuna's bow. Similarly he cut off the second string, and then the third, and then the fourth, and then the fifth. The sixth also was cut off by Vrisha, and then the seventh, then the eighth, then the ninth, then the tenth, and then at last the eleventh.
      • According to Bori
    Quote:
    With those radiant arrows, Arjuna shrouded Karna. But Karna used extremely energetic arrows to angrily sever his bowstring. Fixing another bowstring, Pandava enveloped Karna with thousands of fiery arrows. In that battle, when Karna severed his bowstring, he fixed another one so quickly that no one could make this out. It was wonderful.
    Analysis: So as per Bori the second, third etc strings being cut by karna were later additions to the epic, all of them were false and interpolated. These ten achievements were removed as "non-canon" by Bori. Karna only cut one string not eleven.
    Source: Chapter 1216(66)
    • Karna raising up the whole world/earth
    Quote:
    At that time, O king, the earth swallowed up one of wheels of Karna's car. Quickly alighting then from his vehicle, he seized his sunken wheel with his two arms and endeavoured to lift it up with a great effort. Drawn up with force by Karna, the earth, which had swallowed up his wheel, rose up to a height of four fingers' breadth, with her seven islands and her hills and waters and forests.
    Analysis: As per KMG Karna lifted the ground that he himself was standing on.....
      • According to BORI
    Quote:
    Dhananjaya invoked an arrow with divine mantras. It was like a fire and the poison of a serpent. It was made completely out of iron. Kiriti united this with roudrastra and wished to shoot it. But, in that great battle, the earth swallowed up one of the wheels of Radheya’s chariot. ‘ “Radheya wept in rage. He told Arjuna, ‘O Pandava! Wait for an instant. You can see that because of destiny, my central wheel796 has got submerged. O Partha!
    Analysis: According to Bori, Karna does not attempt to lift the wheel but instead cries like a whiny baby.
    Source: Same as before "chapter 1216 (66)" but here is a screenshot to prove my point.
    In this screenshot it can clearly be seen that the moment karna's wheel was submerged by the earth, at that moment karna automatically started to beg to Arjuna, he never lifted the earth. So as per bori their was no such achievement of karna.
    • Karna choosing not to strike Arjuna in a defenseless position
    Quote:
    The Suta's son then, for slaying the son of Pandu, took up a terrible arrow blazing like fire. When that adored shaft was fixed on the bow-string, the earth, O king, trembled with her mountains and waters and forests. Violent winds began to blow, bearing hard pebbles. All the points of the compass became enveloped with dust. Wails of grief, O Bharata, arose among the gods in the welkin. Beholding that shaft aimed by the Suta's son, O sire, the Pandavas, with cheerless hearts, gave themselves up to great sorrow. That shaft of keen point and endued with the effulgence of Sakra's thunder, sped from Karna's arms, fell upon Dhananjaya's chest and penetrated it like a mighty snake penetrating an ant-hill. That grinder of foes, viz., the high-souled Vibhatsu, thus deeply pierced in that encounter, began to reel. His grasp became loosened, at which his bow Gandiva dropped from his hand. He trembled like the prince of mountains in an earthquake. Availing himself of that opportunity, the mighty car-warrior Vrisha, desirous of extricating his car-wheel that had been swallowed up by the earth, jumped down from his vehicle.
    Analysis: If you read the section linked below then this above quote happened right after Arjuna countered Karna's astra using the Vayavya weapon.
        • In bori
    Quote:
    Karna pacified the fire through a varuna weapon. He covered all the directions with clouds and it was as dark as a rainy day. Pandaveya was not frightened. While Radheya looked on, the valiant one used the vayavya weapon and dispelled all the clouds. The supreme one’s standard had the marks of an elephant’s housing. It was decorated with gold, pearls, jewels and diamonds. It had been crafted by excellent artisans over a long period of time. It was expensive and beautiful in form. It always inspired your soldiers and terrified and frightened the enemy. It was renowned in the world and blazed like the sun and the moon. Kiriti used a razor-sharp arrow that was gold-tufted and pointed. With that, he brought down the handsome and blazing standard of the great-souled maharatha, Adhiratha’s son. O venerable one! When that standard was uprooted, fame, dharma, victory and everything that was dear to the hearts of the Kurus also fell down. Great sounds of lamentation arose. ‘ “To ensure Karna’s death, Pandava took out an anjalika arrow. It was like the great Indra’s vajra, or like a rod that was made out of fire.
    Analysis: Right after Arjuna's counters Karna with the Vayavyastra then their is no mention of the suta's son (Karna) using a special shaft and ever incapacitating Arjuna...
    From "Chapter 1217(67)"

    • Karna mastering "all" weapons.
    KMG
    Quote:
    Thus addressed by Rama, Karna came away, having duty taken his leave. Arriving then before Duryodhana, he informed him, saying, 'I have mastered all weapons!'"
    Analysis: Over here the term "all weapons" may make it sound like Karna learned everysingle weapon ever known but no the truth is that Karna just only learned a few weapons. As this is an obvious mistranslation. Even the word duly is mistranslated as "duty", when we all know that it should be having duly taken his leave not "having duty taken his leave".
    BORI
    Quote:
    Having been thus addressed by Rama, he took his leave and departed. He went to Duryodhana and said, ‘I have become accomplished in the use of weapons.’”’
    Analysis: He was accomplished in the use of weapons but he was no master, and certainly not trained in every weapon.
    Source: Santi Parva Section 3

    • According to bori, Bhisma said karna was truthful not that he fought fairly, so the line is changed. Karna never fought fair.
    • According to bori Karna's kavacha kundala was cut by a sword not by the vasavi dart

    Quote:
    He grasped his sharp sword and began to cut up his entire body. On seeing Karna cut up his own body, the gods, humans, danavas and masses of siddhas began to roar, because despite the pain, there were no distortions on his face. Celestial drums were sounded and divine flowers were showered down from above, at the sight of Karna, the brave man, smiling repeatedly as he cut up his own body with the sword. Having sliced off the divine armour from his body, while it was still wet, he gave it to Vasava.
    Analysis: According to bori he used a sword instead of the vasavi dart. So the kavacha kundala would break upon contact with a ORDINARY SWORD/BLADE.
    Source: Vana Parva Section 294
    SO THE KAVACHA-KUNDALA COULD EASILY BE BROKEN BY A ORDINARY SWORD/BLADE/KNIFE.
    Pro Karna points have not been made very well at all in this long running debate/topic.
    So basically according to bori
    1. Karna never strung the bow at Swayamvara, instead he failed in his task.
    2. Draupadi never rejected Karna, he could not even string her bow.
    3. Karna did not defeat any Gandharvas in the digvijay.
    4. Karna did not defeat Bhagadatta.
    5. Karna did not cut off any celestial armor.
    6. Karna did not defeat the five pandavas.
    7. Karna did not cut e11even strings of the Gandiva bow.
    8. Karna did not lift the earth.
    9. Karna never incapacitated Arjuna on the seventeenth (17th) day.
    10. Karna did not master all weapons he only became accomplished in a few.
    11. Karna did not fight fairly, he was only truthful.
    12. Karna cut his own divine kavacha kundala using a sword not a celestial dart.
    So the fools that say Bori is pro karna and not anti karna are pretty much idiots, as they have not read it at all, yet still cry for bori bori bori. Karna greatest achievements are all confirmed as interpolations, barring his victory over Jarasandha (someone who even Nakula and Sahadeva had an opportunity to defeat).

    Thursday, July 5, 2018

    Unknown defeats of Karna from Mahabharata and other sources.

    So now if a karna fan uses a fake source like Mrityunjaya to support their claims then you should also have the freedom to use a fake source.
    In this post i will be discussing a few other defeats of Karna, and some incidents from an authentic source like Mahabharata that could be considered a defeat of Karna.
    Karna is a character who has the word defeat, retreat, run away, fled, loss written all over him as a he was a useless failure.
    Here are a few more of his defeats i will start by using an authentic source like Mahabharata then i will work my way up by using non-canon sources.
    • Defeat number (1) - Krishna before Kurukshetra
    Quote:
    The Angas, the Vangas, the Kalingas, the Magadhas, the Kasis, the Kosalas, the Vatsyas, the Gargyas, the Karushas and the Paundras,--all these he vanquished in battle.
    Analysis: Over here the name of Karna's kingdom (anga) is clealry stated. Whether or not Vrishasena/Adhiratha were ruling Anga at this time is unknown but it is quite clear that this happened before Krishna entered Hastinpore as a peace messenger. And in this encounter all of the Anga warriors (including Karna) were defeated by krishna. Also the Vangas (which Sisupala claimed Karna ruled over) were also vanquished by Krishna. You can't defeat a kingdom/tribe without defeating their ruler.
    Quote number two:
    We have never heard that there is any one among the kings who has not been vanquished by Krishna. That exceedingly wonderful feat also, O Sanjaya, which the lotus-eyed one performed in my court, who else is capable of performing it?
    Analysis:
    Over here it's stated that Dhritarashtra and Sanjaya have yet to hear of a king who had not lost to krishna. And they both clearly heard of Karna so it's safe to say that Karna has been included in the list of those defeated by Krishna.
    • Defeat number (2) - Rukmi at Vana Parva
    Quote:
    Then going to the south, Karna vanquished the mighty charioteers (of that quarter) and in Dakshinatya, the Suta's son entered into conflict with Rukmi. After having fought dreadfully, Rukmi spake to the Suta's son saying, 'O foremost of monarchs, I have been pleased with thy might and prowess. I shall not do thee wrong: I have only fulfilled the vow of a Kshatriya. Gladly will I give thee as many gold coins as thou desirest.' Having met with Rukmi, Karna, repaired to Pandya and the mountain, Sri.
    Analysis: Over here Karna did not even defeat Rukmi instead Rukmi chose to give him tribute claiming that he was following the the vows of a Kshatriya. Nowhere is it written that Karna gained any sort of advantage over rukmi. Thus he failed to even conquer his kingdom. Karna decided to retreat to a mountain instead. This is proof Karna's digvijay campaign was a failure.
    • Defeat number (3) - Bhisma at Udyoga Parva
    Quote:
    "O king of kings, when Bhishma said this after Karna had gone away giving up his weapons, Duryodhana, that foolish son of Vichitravirya's son, addressed Santanu's son in these words."
    Analysis: It clearly states that Karna gave up his weapons, and that karna had gone away fleeing the scene. These are the actions of a defeated man. So Karna was defeated by Bhisma over here. If you click the link and read the text prior to this quote then you can see Bhisma was already taking to Karna before the latter chose to retreat.
    • Defeat number (4) - Suvajra at Duryodhana's marriage
    Quote:
    There Suvajra, due to the boon he had received from Shiva and partnership with Jarasandha, defeated Duryodhana and captured him. Karna fled from the scene. The reason for his defeat was that, he was fighting with a competitive attitude towards Pandavas.
    Quote:
    All of them returned to Hastinapura like ghosts along with Karna. Noticing at the enemity among them, Dhritarashtra said to Dharmaraja: “Leave immediately to Indraprastha”.
    Analysis: In the first quote it was clearly stated this is Karna's defeat. In the second quote it is stated that Karna was like a ghost, so he may have been ashamed of this incident.
    • Defeat number (5) - Women after Abhimanyu's death
    Quote:
    In Drona parva after Abhimanyu's death Draupadi leads an army of women against the Kauravas. Karna refuses to fight them. Duryodhana is routed.
    Analysis:
    Karna chose to run away. He refused to fight his enemy. Inaction is a defeat.
    • Defeat number (6) - Bhima at the Subhadra-Harana Parva
    Quote:
    He asked Karna to capture Arjuna. Bhima intervened and said he would kill anyone who laid a finger on Arjuna. In the meanwhile Satyaki went to Arjuna. He asked Arjuna to throw away his anger and return to Dwaraka. Krishna and Balarama had agreed to the marriage. Duryodhana, humiliated, returned by his friends and army to Hastinapur.
    Analysis: If Karna was a real man then he would not have followed Duryodhana to Hastinpore. Instead he would have stayed in Dwaraka and fought Arjuna even if Bhima intervenes. But no, that's not what he chose to do.
    Although fan-fictions white wash karna's character the defeat of Karna still remains over their.

    • Defeat number (7) - Pandava warriors ambushed karna and had him at their mercy ACCORDING TO BORI (on the seventeenth day).
    Quote:
    Wishing to kill Radheya, the strikers, Dhrishtadyumna, Satyaki, Droupadi’s sons, Vrikodara, Janamejaya, Shikhandi, the brave ones among the Prabhadrakas, the Chedis, the Panchalas and the armoured Matsyas attacked him. They showered down many kinds of arrows and weapons. They showered down and oppressed him, like clouds pouring down on a mountain during the rainy season. O king! Wishing to save their father, the strikers who were Karna’s sons and other brave ones on your side, repulsed those valiant ones.
    Analysis: This is actually an authentic/canon/factual defeat of karna that actually did happen in Karna Parva section 32, in Bori Critical Edition. Since the text claims karna's sons and warriors of the kuru army were wishing to "save" him (karna) that means karna was defeated and in danger of getting killed. Over here even Draupadi's sons were shown as superior warriors to karna. Karna proved that he was a very poor commander over here as he chose to go alone against so many great warriors who were better than him.
    Source: Chapter 1182(32)

    Wednesday, July 4, 2018

    Was Karna really 107 years old?

    In this post i will not be using screenshots from the Debroy translation of BORI Mahabharata, and narratives from Kmg's translation but instead rather i will be using mere quotes from Debroy's translation. I won't be using screenshots to prove that they are from Debroy's Bori ce text.
    After all their are some people who love to copy and paste from the sacred-text.com's unauthentic article "the Mahabharata Chronology", some people have even tried to say that Karna's son Vrishasena was older than Yudhishthira.
    Cause i myself do not believe that he was one hundred-seven years old when he died, i do not believe that Karna was sixteen years older than Yudhishthira either.
    • First we need to find out how old Kunti was when she gave birth to Karna.
      • Karna's birth, it has been narrated multiple times. No wonder we truly do not know who his father is.
        • By Vaisampayana
          • First incident
    Quote:
    ‘“Karna, of great strength, was born from Surya when Kunti was still a virgin. He emerged from his mother’s womb with natural armour64 and a face adorned with earrings.65
    Analysis:
    Source: Adi-vamshavatarana Parva (section 57)
          • Second incident
    Quote:
    Know that the greatly famous maharatha Karna, who parted with his natural armour, was born from the celestial sun.
    Analysis: Perhaps Karna only became famous after he parted ways with his kavach. But it is impossible for anyone to be born from the Sun. So it is a term to hide the true identity/name of Karna's father.

    Source: Sambhava Parva (section 61)
          • Third incident
    Quote:
    ‘Though still a virgin, the illustrious one summoned the god Arka.260 She immediately saw the sun, who makes the worlds come alive. On seeing that wonderful sight, the one with the unblemished form was astounded. Tapana,261 who spreads light, placed an embryo in her womb. Through him, she gave birth to a warrior who was supreme among those who knew the use of all weapons. He was born with natural armour, blessed with good fortune and handsome like a son of the gods. His natural armour and earrings lit up his face. This son was known in all the worlds as Karna. After giving her, the supremely radiant one and the best among those who give, Tapana, restored her virginity and returned to heaven. ‘So as to hide her misconduct and frightened of her relatives, Kunti262 hurled the son, who bore all the auspicious marks, into the water.
    Analysis:
    Source: Adi Parva section 104
          • Fourth incident
    Quote:
    That destroyer of enemy armies was great in fame and wide of eyes. Karna was born from Pritha when she was a virgin, from a portion of the sun whose rays are sharp. His strength, valour and prowess were like that of a lion, a bull, or a king of elephants. In radiance, beauty and splendour, he was like the sun, the moon and the fire. He was tall, like a golden palm tree. He was a youth who could slay lions. Born from the sun, he was handsome and possessed countless qualities.
    Analysis: Karna still had his kavacha kundalas during the Tournament of Adi Parva. He was considered "a youth" over here. A woman also can not be a virgin when she gives birth to a kid, so the quote has some inaccuracies and illogical conclusions.
    Source: Adi Parva Section 126
          • Fifth incident
    Quote:
    In due course of time, through the favours of the god, the maiden, who was excellent in her complexion, gave birth to a son. He was as radiant as the immortals. He was attired in armour and was adorned in golden and brilliant earrings. His eyes were tawny and he had the shoulders of a bull, like his father. As soon as the son was born, the beautiful one consulted the nurse. She placed the child in a basket that was prepared well on all sides.
    Analysis: It's stated that Karna was in good shape, athletic build, bull like shoulders, had tawny eyes, and of course attired in armor and adorned in earrings. It is even stated that he completely resembled/resembles his father. This doesn't sound like the description of a baby though.
    Source: Vana Parva Section 292
    • Other narratives of Karna's birth
      • (Raja dharma Parva)
    Quote:
    Therefore, listen to what happened in earlier times, about how the kshatriyas would be cleansed by weapons and would go to heaven. To engender that dissension, he was created in a virgin womb. He was energetic as a child and came to be known as the son of a suta.
    Analysis: This quote is particularly interesting as it states that Karna's whole birth was a political plot to bring about an end to the Kshatriya race of the earth.

    • By all accounts it's stated that Kunti was a maiden when she gave birth to Karna. And another reason for her discardment of Karna was due to the fear she had of her relatives. A maiden's age is like a virgins, their is no limit to Kunti's age.

    Some people (in the Mahabharata community) have tried to claim that Kunti was 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 years old when she gave birth to Karna. But that's not true as their is no evidence at all for kunti being a child/teen/adolescent when she gave birth to Karna.
    Here is the description of Kunti's early life (whether it was childhood or not is unknown) from the bori ce text, in the kingdom of her foster father (real life uncle) Kuntibhoja:
    To do a favour and an act of friendship to his friend, he gave her to the great-souled Kuntibhoja. In her father’s258 house, she was appointed to honour the gods and guests. One day, she happened to tend to the Brahmana who was rigid in his vows and who was known as Durvasa. He was fearsome and was learned in the secret mysteries of dharma. Attending to his needs in every way, she pleased the selfcontrolled one. Through his foresight, he knew that she would face the dharma that is indicated for times of distress259 and need magic. The sage gave her a mantra and said, “Whichever gods you summon through the use of this mantra, will grant you sons through their grace.” Having been told this by the Brahmana, she was curious.
    Analysis: This is right before she became curious and had intercourse with the future father of Karna. Usually a woman that has feelings of curiousity would be labelled as naive, inexperienced and immature.

    Source: Adi Parva section 104
    So to find out the age of Kunti we might as well check what the age of Kunti was during her marriage to Pandu.
    Quote:
    Vaishampayana said, ‘Kuntibhoja’s daughter was beautiful and possessed all the qualities. She was always devoted to dharma and great vows. Her father arranged for a svayamvara. She found the handsome Pandu among thousands of powerful kings who had teeth like lions, shoulders like elephants and eyes like bulls. Blessed with unlimited good fortune, Kuru’s descendant and Kuntibhoja’s daughter were married, like Maghavan with Poulomi.268
    Analysis:
    Granted this swayamvara would have taken place after Karna's birth it makes sense for Kunti to choose a husband that is in her age range. It is even stated that she possessed all the great qualities required for a spouse/wife/queen/woman. And that her union with Pandu was compared to a divine couples. Some people claim that Kunti only choose Pandu because he lived at Hastinapore and could watch over Karna but their is clearly nothing in the above quote that indicated that theory. And Anga (where karna grew up) was miles away from Hastinapore and out of Pandu's reach. So Kunti's selection of Pandu at her Swayamvara had nothing to do with vimna partho karna. In my opinion she may have chosen Pandu only cause of his looks and lineage though.
    Source: Adi Parva Section 105
    • How old was Kunti when she gave birth to Yudhishthira (who was 2 and a half years older than Arjuna)?
    Quote of the birth:
    ‘O Janamejaya! Kunti summoned the undecaying Dharma for conception, after Gandhari had been with child for a year. The queen swiftly made offerings to Dharma and followed the rites that had earlier been given to her by Durvasa. Through his powers of yoga, Dharma assumed form and she united with him. Consequently, the one with the beautiful hips obtained a son who was the best of all living beings. This was a sacred tithi,297 widely worshipped. It was the eighth hour of the day and the sun was in the middle of the sky. It was the auspicious moment known as aindra, when the moon was in conjunction with Abhijit.298 When it was time, Kunti gave birth to a famous son. As soon as he was born, an invisible voice was heard. “There is no doubt that he will be supreme among those who uphold dharma. Pandu’s first-born son will be famous by the name of Yudhishthira.
    Analysis: This is a year after Gandhari's pregnancy. Gandhari had to have been at least sixteen when she got pregnant. Kunti is the younger wife. So perhaps Kunti was fifteen before and is now sixteen since Gandhari is seventeen (as she was pregnant for a year). Then it took 9 months for Kunti's pregnancy to be complete so she is either really close to seventeen or exactly seventeen when Yudhishthir was born. So this birth would take place three to four years after the birth of Karna. So Kunti was indeed a teenage girl when she was pregnant with karna.
    Source: Adi parva section 114
    • Karna's childhood.
    Quote:
    There, he went to Drona to learn about weapons. The brave one became Duryodhana’s friend. Having obtained the four kinds of weapons from Drona, Kripa and Rama, he became famous in the world as a great archer.34 Having allied himself with Dhritarashtra’s son, he was engaged in enmity towards the Parthas. He always desired to fight with the great-souled Phalguna.35 O lord of the earth! Ever since they first saw each other, he competed with Arjuna and Arjuna competed with Karna. On seeing that he possessed earrings and was clad in armour, Yudhishthira thought that he was invincible in battle and was miserable.
    Analysis:
    Since not much is stated. Even the age gap between Karna and the Kauravas/Pandavas is not brought up. It is not stated who won competitions or not, we are free to interpretate this quote however we please, but only based on this information provided in the quote. It's said that Yudhishthira was always miserable because he saw Karna's skills and his armor/earrings. It is stated that Karna was invincible. But in other spots it is often claimed that Arjuna never lost a single fight/encounter. So we can say that Karna and Arjuna were equal warriors at this point in their life but due to this equality the Kauravas would often defeat the Pandavas because Arjuna could not help them since he was competing with Karna all the time. Either the Pandavas lost or the Pandavas could not defeat the Kauravas, the latter makes more sense to me because Bhisma states that they used to beat the Kauravas at everything.
    Source: Vana Parva section 293
    Quote:
    O Indra among kings! He thought of Bhima’s strength, Phalguna’s dexterity, your intelligence, the humility of the twins, the friendship that the wielder of Gandiva has had with Vasudeva since childhood and the devotion of the subjects and was tormented. From childhood, he formed a friendship with King Duryodhana. This is because of the enmity he always bore towards you and natural destiny. He saw that Dhananjaya was superior to everyone in learning about dhanurveda. Karna secretly went to Drona and spoke these words. ‘I wish to know about brahmastra and the secrets of releasing and withdrawing it. It is my view that I should become Arjuna’s equal in battle. It is certain that the affection you bear towards your disciples is equal to what you bear towards your son. Because of your favours, make me accomplished and skilled in the use of weapons.’
    Analysis: Over here it is all different. It is stated that instead of Yudhishthira being jealous it was Karna that was jealous of Arjuna's skills, Bhima's strength etc. He approached Drona for higher training as he believed Drona could have made him a superior warrior. But one key factor over here is that the text claims that Karna was still in his childhood at the time. So him being just four years older than Yudhisthira (who was also in his childhood at the time makes sense.)
    Source: Rajadharma Parva section 2
    • Description of karna's body after his death (in BORI Mahabharata), this will help us get a proper idea of his age when he was killed.
    Quote:
    Without the armour, the body was mangled by arrows and lost its life. Karna’s body was severed and fell down. Blood oozed from the wounds, like red chalk flowing from the slopes of a mountain, when the summit has been struck by thunder. When Karna’s body fell down, a flaming mass of energy arose and rose up into the sky. O king! When Karna was slain, all the men and warriors witnessed this great wonder. ‘ “On seeing that he had been slain and was lying down, with their soldiers, the Somakas roared in delight. They joyfully blew on their trumpets and waved their garments and hands around. Other troops danced around. They embraced each other, roaring in delight. They saw that Karna had been destroyed and was lying down on the ground. The ratha had been slain and mangled by the arrows. It was as if the untainted and extinguished fire was lying down in the expansive sky, after the end of a sacrifice. All his limbs were mangled by arrows and torrents of blood flowed from them. Karna’s body was beautiful, like the rays of the sun in the firmament. He had tormented the soldiers of the enemy with flaming arrows that were like the sun’s rays. The powerful Karna was like the setting sun, conveyed to death by Arjuna. When the sun sets, all its radiance also departs. Like that, the arrow took away Karna’s life. O venerable one! It was the late part of the afternoon then. Severed by the anjalika in the battle, the head and the body of the son of a suta fell down. While the soldiers of the enemy looked on, it swiftly severed Karna’s head and body. ‘ “The brave Karna fell down on the ground. Mangled by arrows, blood flowed out from his body. On seeing that he was lying down on the ground and seeing that the standard had been severed, the king of Madra withdrew on the chariot. When Karna was slain, the Kurus fled. They were severely struck in the battle and were afflicted with fear. They repeatedly glanced at Arjuna’s great standard, blazing in form. He802 had performed deeds like those of the one with one thousand eyes. His face was as beautiful as one with one thousand petals.803 He was like the one with one thousand rays, at the end of the day. Thus did his head fall down on the ground.”
    Analysis: This can hardly be the description of a 107 year old man..... his body was still called very beautiful and compared to the Sun. Repeatedly it has been stated that his body has been mangled and wounded by arrows.... yet a wounded body is still called beautiful despite being dyed red with blood.

    Source: Chapter 1217(67)

    Quote:
    The brave Karna had fallen down on the ground. His body had been mangled by arrows and blood flowed from it. It was as if the sun had fallen down from the sky. To see this, everyone came there and surrounded the body. There were those who belonged to your side and others who belonged to the enemy. Some were cheerful. Others were frightened. Some were distressed. Others were amazed. There were others who were completely overcome by grief. According to their natural traits, they looked towards each other. Karna had possessed armour, ornaments, garments and weapons.
    Analysis:
    If Karna possessed armor, ornaments, garments and weapons then why is his body mangled despite the armor?
    Source: Chapter 1218(68)
    Quote:
    With those arrows on his limbs, Karna looked beautiful on the ground. Though slain, he looked like the sun, with its rays. Karna’s body was covered with blood. It was as if the illustrious sun was showing compassion towards its devotee809 and having touched the crimson form with its red hand, was proceeding beyond the ocean to have a bath. That is what the large numbers of gods and rishis thought.
    Analysis: He looks beautiful even though he's older than most grandfathers.
    Source: Chapter 1218(68)
    Quote:
    The brave one’s armour had been shattered by arrows. He had been slain in the battle. Radheya had lost his life. But his beauty810 did not desert him. O king! He was adorned in many ornaments and his armlets were made out of gold. Vaikartana had been slain and was lying down, like a tree with branches and sprouts. He had the complexion of pure gold and blazed like a fire. With his son, the tiger among men was pacified by Partha’s energy. O king!
    Analysis: I can consider this a description of a fit man killed on the battlefield not some 107 year old that does not belong over their.
    Source: Chapter 1218(68)
    Quote:
    Karna’s head was as beautiful as the full moon and Arjuna brought it down with a razor-sharp arrow.
    Analysis:
    Over here Karna is compared to the moon instead of the sun.
    Source: Chapter 1218(68)
    Quote:
    The worst among men laughed at Krishna819 when she had been won in the gambling match. The earth is now drinking the blood of that son of a suta. O bull among the Kuru lineage! With arrows mangling his limbs, that enemy of yours is now lying down. O tiger among men! Look at him. He has been shattered by many arrows.’
    Source: Chapter 1219(69)
    Quote:
    ‘Gandhari said, “This Vaikartana was a maharatha and great archer. He is lying down in the battle, as if a blazing fire has been pacified through Partha’s energy. Behold Vaikartana Karna. He was one who slew many atirathas. However, he has been brought down and is lying down on the ground, his limbs covered with blood. The great archer and maharatha harboured an enmity for a long time and was intolerant. The brave one has been slain in the battle by the wielder of Gandiva and is lying down. When my maharatha sons fought with the Pandavas and terrified them, they placed him at their head, like elephants with a leader of the herd. He was like a tiger in the battle, against the lion Savyasachi. He has been brought down, like an elephant by a crazy elephant. O tiger among men! When that brave one has been killed in the battle, his wives have assembled and have surrounded him, with their hair dishevelled. They are weeping.
    Analysis: Since his bones (limbs) were covered by blood it's hard to deduce his age.
    Source: Chapter 1322(21)
    Quote:
    He has been slain and is lying down on the ground, like a tree shattered by a storm. Behold Karna’s wife, Vrishasena’s mother. She has fallen down on the ground and is lamenting and weeping in piteous tones. ‘It is certain that the preceptor’s curse followed you.77 That is the reason the earth swallowed up the wheel of your chariot. Then, in the midst of the enemy in the battle, Dhananjaya’s arrow severed your head.’ Alas! Shame! When Sushena’s mother78 has seen the mighty-armed Karna, with gold-decorated armour plates and who was never dispirited, she has fallen down, senseless. She is extremely miserable and is weeping. There is little left of the great-souled one. The predatory beasts have devoured his body. It is not a pleasant sight and is inauspicious, like the moon on the fourteenth day of krishnapaksha. She is writhing on the ground, where she has fallen. She is distressed and has arisen again. She is inhaling the fragrance of Karna’s face. Tormented because her sons have been killed, she is weeping.”’
    Analysis: Karna's corpse was defiled and eaten up by vultures and beasts so i can't figure out how old he is from this. Also this is coming from a second person perspective as Gandhari is the one who is speaking about what Karna's wives said at the sight of his corpse. And if Karna's body is covered with blood then how can he have golden armor on it?
    Source: Chapter 1322(21)

    • Karna was younger than Krishna
      • Proof that Krishna was already over 100 years old during Sabha Parva (this is from KMG).
    Quote:
    And afterwards, when at the p. 119 command of the whole tribe, the same Kansa had been slain by Krishna that slayer of foes, all the men of the tribe became exceedingly happy for a hundred years.
    Analysis:
    Krishna would have to be older than a new born baby to have killed Kansa right? Also the text clearly states one hundred years, so Krishna had already passed the age of 100.
    And since Yudhishthira was younger than Karna, well Yudhishthira would have also had to be younger than Krishna.
    And Karna worshiped Krishna too.
    Quote:
    'Hearing these beneficial and auspicious words of Kesava, Karna worshipped Krishna, the slayer of Madhu, and said these words, p. 276 [paragraph continues] 'Knowing (everything), why dost thou yet, O thou of mighty arms, seek to beguile me?
    Analysis: If worship indicates an age gap then that proves Karna was younger than Krishna.
    Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m05/m05143.htm PS: i don't believe worship equals that the devotee is younger, because even krishna worshiped yudhishthira and we all know that yudhishthira is not older than Krishna and karna.......
    I think every Mahabharata fan, every Arjuna fan, every karna fan, every vaishnavite, every shaivite can agree with the fact that Yudhishthira is younger than Karna (if not Krishna) right?
    • When did Karna truly lose his kavacha kundala?
      • Before the birth of Ghatotkaca, death of Hidimva, and burning of the lac palace in Varanavata.
        • This would make sense for the following incidents to happen.
          • Karna's swoon/faint in the Swayamvara Parva during his encounter with Brahmin Arjuna.
          • Karna's mangled body during his defeat/retreat in Ghosha-Yatra of Vana Parva at the Dwaitavana woods due to the weapons & tools of Gandharvas.
        • This is an authentic time period for him to lose it (as per Indonesian Mahabharata). And it is also a logical period in time (due to the incidents where he gets wounded).
          • Krishna, Surya, Kunti, Yudhishthira & Vaisampayana had all described the Kavacha Kundalas to be impenetrable and immune to the weapons of both Arjuna and Krishna, so they could not have been with karna during the above two incidents.
          • After all their is also a theory that Karna was never called "Karna" before the loss of his Kavacha Kundala, although their is only one reference in the Mahabharata (for this claim) and no cross reference it is still a believable claim if we consider the possibility of Karna losing the Kavacha Kundalas prior to the Vana Parva.
          • My claim is also supported by a Karna fan known as "Niraj Sharma".
            • Screenshot 1
            • Screenshot 2
      • Mahabharata is a story that is not described chronologically up to date with time, lie for example they did not narrate the marriage of Duryodhana until after Duryodhana's death.
        • Vaisampayana did not narrate Arjuna's encounter with the Nivatakavacas until Arjuna arrived to reunite with the Pandavas. If he described it chronologically then the encounter would have been narrated and recited when Arjuna had not completed his training and when Arjuna had not returned to the Pandavas & Draupadi.
        • Iravat's (first son of Arjuna) childhood was not narrated until Bhishma Parva despite the fact that he was born in Adi Parva. So chronologically his childhood should have been described in Adi Parva and Sabha Parva.
        • The five days of war in Drona Parva are not narrated while they are happening they are instead narrated (by Sanjaya) to Dhritarashtra after they have already occurred.
        • So all these incidents are mixed up and not put together properly, thus the Mahabharata leaves it to the readers to find out how to interpret this, and what timeline is correct.
          • It does not tell the earliest events and then follow a particular order.
    Even though people these days believe Karna to be older than Krishna the reality is different, he was in fact younger than Krishna. But still older than Arjuna, bhima, Yudhishthira, nakula, Sahadeva etc.

    • Timeline of Karna's life.

    - Year 0 he was put in a basket and thrown into the river
    - Year 1 Kunti's Swayamvara, marriage to Pandu, Adhiratha/Radha have more offspring/sons
    - Year 2 Pandu's second marriage to Madri and his digvijay campaign
    - Year 3 Pandu retires to the forest and murders Kindama, Kunti has intercourse
    - Year 4 Kunti gives birth to Yudhishthir, brahmins give Karna the name of Vasusena due to his armor/earrings
    - Year 5 Bhima and the one hundred kauravas with yuyutsu/dushala are born
    - Year 6 Arjuna is born, karna must be quaking in fear by now, as he was tormented by the Pandavas later on
    - Year 7 Nakula and Sahadeva are born, Karna becomes a acquaintance of the Kuru family (since his father Adhirath was a friend of the kuru king "Dhritarashtra")
    - Year 11 Pandu and Madri die, Kunti and the Pandavas arrive at Hastinapore
    - Year 12 Bhima bullies the Kauravas, Karna advises them to poison Bhima
    - Year 13 Karna is sent to Hastinapore again (this is not the first time), this time he goes to be taught by Drona, rivalry with Arjuna starts over here, enmity with Pandavas continues (before he didnt see Arjuna, but this time he did finally see him) his friendship with Duryodhana increases (this is not the first time they became friends)
    - Year 14 Karna donates his armor and gains the names "Vaikartana" and "Karna"
    - Year 17 Karna is trained by Parasurama and gains the Brahmastra/Bhargava wepaons
    - Year 18 Karna mingles with Rakshasas, Yakshas, Gandharvas, Devas etc
    - Year 19 Karna kills a calf of a Brahmana's homa cow in the jungle, then the brahmana curses him
    - Year 20 Karna gets cursed by Parasurama & leaves the mahendra mountain in shame
    - Year 21 Karna marries two wives according to the selection of his foster father Adhiratha
    - Year 22 Karna begets a son (probably Vrishasena as he was the oldest)
    - Year 23 Karna enters the Tournament (as even Arjuna was called a youth and he was one year older than Nakula/Sahadeva, arjuna is seventeen, bhima is eighteen, yudhishthir is nineteen), equals Arjuna's performance, runs away from Drupada
    - Year 24 Arjuna, Nakula and Bhima get more training from Drona and Balarama (according to KMG), and Yudhishthira becomes heir apparent, Karna abducts a kalinga princess for Duryodhana
    - Year 25 Arjuna and Bhima conquer kingdoms for Hastinapore, karn plans to burn Pandavas in Varanavata
    - Year 26 after a year of living in the house of lac it is burnt down, karna celebrates the death of kunti
    - Year 27 Ghatotkaca is born, Hidimva (male) dies, Hidimva (female) mated with Bhim, Indra transferred a portion of his energy for the birth of Ghatotkaca
    - Year 32 Ghatotkaca becomes a master bowman/archer, a favorite of the Pandavas, he gains twice the affection that yudhishthir has for sahadev
    - Year 33 Pandavas kill Baka, Arjuna defeats Angaraparna and wins a hundred horses, they travel across many places and their hair becomes matted, during this time Karna must have been wasting the time of his life
    - Year 34 Draupadi's Swayamvara occurred, karna failed to string the bow, arjuna defeated karna in a fair fight despite being disguised as a Brahmin,
    - Year 35 Pandavas build Indraprastha, karna out of frustration abducts another woman for Duryodhana, this time a princess of Kasi
    - Year 36 Arjuna is exiled for twelve years, during this time we have no information of what Karna was doing, maybe his interpolated digvijay occurred during these 12 years instead of during the 1 year after Ghosha Yatra, it would make more sense to be honest
    - Years during Arjuna's twelve year exile let's speculate and say that this is the time where Karna faced Jarasandha, defeated him in a wrestling encounter, and mangled him
    - Year 48 Arjuna returns to Indraprastha, Pandavas have more sons from Draupadi, perhaps Karna's sons also got married at this era and fathered the grandsons of Karna
    - Year 64 all of the Upapandavas have completed their military education/training under Arjuna
    - Year 65 Khandava Daha occurs
    - Year 82 Bhima conquers the Anga kingdom of Karna during his digvijay conquest
    - Year 83 the Dyuta Parva begins and ends, the pandavas are exiled
    - Year 95 Karna's fake interpolated digvijaya, where he defeats all kings of Aryavarta and makes Duryodhana an emperor of the earth, hard to believe karna was so active........
    - Year 98 since Dhritarashtra claims thirty three years passed (since khandava) i will go with that as 33 makes more sense than 65 and nine plus eight equals 17 (death day of karna in the kurukshetra war).
    I don't believe karna is 98 years old though.... So maybe khandava daha happened right after the return of Arjuna, this would make karna 81 instead of 98, but then how can he still look so young? I do nto know where the Mahabharata Chronology of sacred texts.com ever got the conclusion that he was 107 though.... Their is no proof for it.
    Why I believe Karna was at most 5 years older than Yudhishthira, and at least 1 year older, in between that much (this screenshot is from Santi Parva Section 2):
    The word “childhood” is written twice, the second time shows that Karna was friends with Duryodhan ever since his own childhood. It says from childhood not Duryodhan’s childhood.The only way for Duryodhana to have friendship with someone would be to make sure that Duryodhana is old enough to be friends with someone, a baby cannot play with or have friendship with another baby/person.
    ______
    This post may or may not have come to a conclusion... but it did make things a lot more clearer and now i hope the readers have come to a better understanding of the Mahabharata and Karna/his age.