Note that i will only give screenshots, quotes, and chapter numbers for Bori Mahabharata as their is no link to PDF file.
Let's get started.
- Karna stringing the bow of Draupadi
- Kmg
Quote:
And beholding the plight of those monarchs, Karna that foremost of all wielders of the bow went to where the bow was, and quickly raising it strung it and placed the arrows on the string. And beholding the son of Surya--Karna of the Suta tribe--like unto fire, orSoma , or Surya himself, resolved to shoot the mark, those foremost of bowmen--the sons of Pandu--regarded the mark as already shot and brought down upon the ground.
- Same Kmg says Karna failed
Then those princes--Karna, Duryodhana, Salwa, Salya, Aswatthaman, Kratha, Sunitha, Vakra, the ruler of Kalinga and Banga, Pandya, Paundra, the ruler of Videha, the chief of the Yavanas, and many other sons and grandsons of kings,--sovereigns of territories with eyes like lotus-petals,--one after another began to exhibit prowess for (winning) that maiden of unrivalled beauty. Adorned with crowns, garlands, bracelets, and other ornaments, endued with mighty arms, possessed of prowess and vigour and bursting with strength andenergy , those princes could not, even in imagination, string that bow of extraordinary stiffness.
Analysis: Aswathama and Shalya were called princes but they were clearly not princes, Shalya was a king, Aswathama was a brahmin's son. And Karna had eyes like lotus petal, only other people that had such eyes (kamalnayan) were Krishna and Arjuna.
2nd quote:
"At last when in that assemblage consisting of highly respectable people, all the monarchs had become subjects of derisive talk that foremost of heroes--Jishnu, the son of Kunti--desired to string the bow and placed the arrows on the bow-string."
Analysis: The word "monarch" is used. Karna was a monarch of Anga and Vanga. So he had to be one of the monarchs that failed, as it says "all" monarchs became the subject of disrespectful language, the monarchs that were in the Swayamvara...
3rd quote:
And that bow which Rukma, Sunitha, Vakra, Radha's son, Duryodhana, Salya, and many other kings accomplished in the science and practice of arms, could not even with great exertion, string, Arjuna, the son of Indra, that foremost of all persons endued with energy and like unto the younger brother of Indra (Vishnu) in might, strung in the twinkling of an eye.
Analysis:
Their is more evidence (in KMG) for Karna's failure rather than his success in stringing the bow of Draupadi at Swayamvara Parva. And the only "son of Radha" that was a "king" was clearly Karna.
SO THE KAVACHA-KUNDALA COULD EASILY BE BROKEN BY A ORDINARY SWORD/BLADE/KNIFE.
Pro Karna points have not been made very well at all in this long running debate/topic.
- Bori
- Screenshot describing and referencing Karna's failure
- Proof it was a karna who was different from the Kaurava brothers
- Droupadi rejecting Karna
- Kmg
Quote:
But seeing Karna, Draupadi loudly said, 'I will not select a Suta for my lord.' Then Karna, laughing in vexation and casting glance at the Sun, threw aside the bow already drawn to a circle. Then when all those Kshatriyas gave up the task, the heroic king of the p. 375 [paragraph continues] Chedis--mighty as Yama (Pluto) himself--the illustrious and determined Sisupala, the son of Damaghosa, in endeavouring to string the bow, himself fell upon his knees on the ground.
- Bori
Not present in the text of BORI mahabharata. Cause as bori described Karna already failed in the swayamvara. He straight up could not even string this metal bow. Karna's name was mentioned among those who failed, and he was clearly not the son of Gandhari, he was equated with Shalya. Also Yuyutsu having the second hand name of "Karna" is removed as an interpolation by Bori so it can't be him either.
- Karna conquering Gandharvas (in his digvijaya)
- KMG translation
- Note that all they have for this incident in Mahabharata, (whether canon or non-canon) is a third person reference/narrative by Bhisma on his deathbed about Karna's feats.
Quote:
Many kings, amongst whom Nagnajit was the foremost, while staying in Girivraja, as also the Amvashthas, the Videhas, and the Gandharvas, were all vanquished by thee.
Analysis: The text says Gandharvas were vanquished by Karna, they were defeated according to Kmg.
- Bori ce text
Quote:
You went to Girivraja21 and vanquished the kings, with Nagnajit at the forefront, and the Ambashthas, the Videhas and the Gandharas.
Analysis: According to BORI Karna never defeated any Gandharva in his life. Instead he only conquered the tribe of Gandharas (the people that lived in the kingdom of "Gandhar", Sakuni's people). Just removing the letter "v" was enough to change the identity of karna's victims.
About the screenshot: It will reduce your hardwork to search for Karna's conquest if you read in between the first time karna is mentioned in the screenshot and stop at the second mention of "Karna".
Source: CHAPTER 981(4)
- Karna vanquishing Bhagadatta
- According to KMG
Quote:
Then going to the north, he subdued the sovereigns (of that quarter) and having effected the defeat of Bhagadatta, Radha's son ascended that mighty mountain Himavat, all along fighting his foes.
Analysis: This is the only legit quote that actually says "Bhagadatta's name" in it. All the other quotes that Karna fans have used are unauthentic to support their claim of Karna defeating Bhagadatta. And it is described in lesser than half of a line.
- According to BORI
In bori this defeat of Bhagadatta is not mentioned. It would have been one of the biggest achievements of Karna's lfie yet he never brags about it and no one, i repeat no one, not even Dhritarashtra, Shalya, Krishna, Bhisma and Duryodhana ever talked about this incident. As it is quite obvious Karna had no hopes of defeating Bhagadatta. Their is no place in Bori's translation by Bibek Debroy where it is written that Karna fought with the mighty Bhagadatta.
- Karna destroying the impenetrable armor of Bhima during the 14th day
- Proof of his impenetrable armor
- Kmg translation
Quote:
Then Karna pierced the impenetrable armour of Bhima with four and sixty arrows.
- Bori ce text
Quote:
Then Karna used sixty-four arrows to firmly pierce his armour and angrily struck him in the sides with iron arrows that could penetrate the inner organs.
Analysis: Bori removes the word "impenetrable" and replaces it with just "his armour". Thus the armor of Bhima is ordinary on the fourteenth day according to Bori.
Chapter: CHAPTER 1083(106)
- Karna cutting it
First quote:
Karna, however, in the dreadful battle, resisting all those shafts with his own, cut off Bhima's armour also with his arrows.
Second quote:
Their coats of mail cut off by means of arrows, and their bodies covered with blood, Karna and Bhima then looked like a couple of snakes just freed from their sloughs.
- Quotes of Bori
Quote:
Wishing to kill the son of the suta, the brave and spirited Pandava shot a thousand arrows at him. In that great battle, Karna countered these arrows with arrows of his own and with his arrows, brought down Bhimasena’s armour.
Analysis: It's clearly not present in bori. The word impenetrable is not their so it means that the armor Karna cut was ordinary not "extraordinary". It was penetrable, not impenetrable, meaning anyone (with a bow/arrows) could achieve what Karna achieved.
Source: CHAPTER 1088(111)
Quote:
They were covered with blood and were as resplendent as the sun that arises at the time of destruction. Blood flowed from the wounds on their bodies. Their armour was shattered by arrows. Bereft of armour, they were as beautiful as snakes that had cast off their skins.
Analysis: Both warriors had no armor on, if it was impenetrable why would it get shattered by just "arrows"? Something to think about.
Source: CHAPTER 1088(111)
- Karna defeating five Pandavas on the 17th day
- Kmg
Quote:
"After that furious battle, producing rivers of blood, had commenced, and when a remnant only of the brave samsaptakas, O Bharata, were left unslaughtered, Dhrishtadyumna, O monarch, with all the kings (on the Pandava side) and those mighty car-warriors--the Pandavas themselves, all rushed against Karna only. Like the mountain receiving a vast body of water, Karna, unaided by anyone, received in that battle all those advancing warriors filled with joy and longing for victory. Those mighty car-warriors encountering Karna, were beat off and broken like a mass of water, and beat back on all sides when it encounters a mountain."
Analysis: The text simply states "the Pandavas themselves", and that they were beat off and broken. But if you follow the text of this section and the section after that then you will come to udnerstand the truth. Sanjaya said ourselves (meaning our army) led by Karna, and then the Parthas led by Yuddhistira. This implies that when he said Partha, it mean the army of the Pandavas. Just like how when one says “Kurus”, it means the entire Kuru army, not just the warriors that were biologically the descendents of Kuru. Then, the text says that the Pandavas and Dhristadyumna rushed towards Karna. However, the text does not mention “all Pandavas”. Yuddistira and Nakula can also be described as Pandavas, but not “all Pandavas”. So some of the Pandavas rushed to Karna along with Dhrishtadyuma and other warriors. Then Sanjaya says that the warriors that encountered Karna were beaten back. Sanjaya talks about only Satyaki and Dhrishtadyumna fighting a bout with Karna. He doesn’t mention anything about Arjuna, Bhima or the rest of the Pandavas. Their are no mentions of the 5 Pandavas.
- Basically this is what happened.
- Karna fought Dhrishtadyumna.
- Satyaki rescued Dhrishtadyumna.
- Satyaki fought Karna.
- Aswathama rescued karna and fought Dhrishtadyumna.
Source:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08059.htm Also take a look at this quora answer written by a knowledgeable person (it is based on the Mahabharata). https://www.quora.com/Did-Karna-defeat-all-the-5-Pandavas-in-2-minutes-on-the-17th-day/answer/Maruti-Jai-Walia
- Bori ce
Quote:
With Dhrishtadyumna and all the kings, the maharatha Pandavas rushed against Karna. They were cheerful and attacked in that battle, desiring victory. Alone in that battle, Karna received them, like a mountain receives a flood of water. Having clashed against Karna, those maharathas were shattered and beaten back in all the directions, like a flood of water against a mountain. O great king! The battle that commenced made the body hair stand up.
Analysis: Here it is the typical wording of "pandavas" just meaning more than one. This does not mean that Karna defeated all five of them as Bori removed the word "all", kmg claims "all" rushed towards karna, while bori does not. Meaning Karna defeated more than one pandava if anything, not all pandavas. and clearly Arjuna was not among them as he was on the other side of the field that day (before the bhargavastra incident).
Source: Chapter 1192(42)
- Karna cutting eleven strings of Arjuna's gandiva bow
- According to Kmg
Quote:
Then Karna, with a number of whetted shafts endued with great energy, cut off the string of Arjuna's bow. Similarly he cut off the second string, and then the third, and then the fourth, and then the fifth. The sixth also was cut off by Vrisha, and then the seventh, then the eighth, then the ninth, then the tenth, and then at last the eleventh.
- According to Bori
Quote:
With those radiant arrows, Arjuna shrouded Karna. But Karna used extremely energetic arrows to angrily sever his bowstring. Fixing another bowstring, Pandava enveloped Karna with thousands of fiery arrows. In that battle, when Karna severed his bowstring, he fixed another one so quickly that no one could make this out. It was wonderful.
Analysis: So as per Bori the second, third etc strings being cut by karna were later additions to the epic, all of them were false and interpolated. These ten achievements were removed as "non-canon" by Bori. Karna only cut one string not eleven.
Source: Chapter 1216(66)
- Karna raising up the whole world/earth
Quote:
At that time, O king, the earth swallowed up one of wheels of Karna's car. Quickly alighting then from his vehicle, he seized his sunken wheel with his two arms and endeavoured to lift it up with a great effort. Drawn up with force by Karna, the earth, which had swallowed up his wheel, rose up to a height of four fingers' breadth, with her seven islands and her hills and waters and forests.
Analysis: As per KMG Karna lifted the ground that he himself was standing on.....
- According to BORI
Quote:
Dhananjaya invoked an arrow with divine mantras. It was like a fire and the poison of a serpent. It was made completely out of iron. Kiriti united this with roudrastra and wished to shoot it. But, in that great battle, the earth swallowed up one of the wheels of Radheya’s chariot. ‘ “Radheya wept in rage. He told Arjuna, ‘O Pandava! Wait for an instant. You can see that because of destiny, my central wheel796 has got submerged. O Partha!
Analysis: According to Bori, Karna does not attempt to lift the wheel but instead cries like a whiny baby.
Source: Same as before "chapter 1216 (66)" but here is a screenshot to prove my point.
In this screenshot it can clearly be seen that the moment karna's wheel was submerged by the earth, at that moment karna automatically started to beg to Arjuna, he never lifted the earth. So as per bori their was no such achievement of karna.
In this screenshot it can clearly be seen that the moment karna's wheel was submerged by the earth, at that moment karna automatically started to beg to Arjuna, he never lifted the earth. So as per bori their was no such achievement of karna.
- Karna choosing not to strike Arjuna in a defenseless position
Quote:
The Suta's son then, for slaying the son of Pandu, took up a terrible arrow blazing like fire. When that adored shaft was fixed on the bow-string, the earth, O king, trembled with her mountains and waters and forests. Violent winds began to blow, bearing hard pebbles. All thepoints of the compass became enveloped with dust. Wails of grief, O Bharata, arose among the gods in the welkin. Beholding that shaft aimed by the Suta's son, O sire, the Pandavas, with cheerless hearts, gave themselves up to great sorrow. That shaft of keen point and endued with the effulgence of Sakra's thunder, sped from Karna's arms, fell upon Dhananjaya's chest and penetrated it like a mighty snake penetrating an ant-hill. That grinder of foes, viz., the high-souled Vibhatsu, thus deeply pierced in that encounter, began to reel. His grasp became loosened, at which his bow Gandiva dropped from his hand. He trembled like the prince of mountains in an earthquake. Availing himself of that opportunity, the mighty car-warrior Vrisha, desirous of extricating his car-wheel that had been swallowed up by the earth, jumped down from his vehicle.
Analysis: If you read the section linked below then this above quote happened right after Arjuna countered Karna's astra using the Vayavya weapon.
- In bori
Quote:
Karna pacified the fire through a varuna weapon. He covered all the directions with clouds and it was as dark as a rainy day. Pandaveya was not frightened. While Radheya looked on, the valiant one used the vayavya weapon and dispelled all the clouds. The supreme one’s standard had the marks of an elephant’s housing. It was decorated with gold, pearls, jewels and diamonds. It had been crafted by excellent artisans over a long period of time. It was expensive and beautiful in form. It always inspired your soldiers and terrified and frightened the enemy. It was renowned in the world and blazed like the sun and the moon. Kiriti used a razor-sharp arrow that was gold-tufted and pointed. With that, he brought down the handsome and blazing standard of the great-souled maharatha, Adhiratha’s son. O venerable one! When that standard was uprooted, fame, dharma, victory and everything that was dear to the hearts of the Kurus also fell down. Great sounds of lamentation arose. ‘ “To ensure Karna’s death, Pandava took out an anjalika arrow. It was like the great Indra’s vajra, or like a rod that was made out of fire.
Analysis: Right after Arjuna's counters Karna with the Vayavyastra then their is no mention of the suta's son (Karna) using a special shaft and ever incapacitating Arjuna...
- Karna mastering "all" weapons.
KMG
Quote:
Thus addressed by Rama, Karna came away, having duty taken his leave. Arriving then before Duryodhana, he informed him, saying, 'I have mastered all weapons!'"
Analysis: Over here the term "all weapons" may make it sound like Karna learned everysingle weapon ever known but no the truth is that Karna just only learned a few weapons. As this is an obvious mistranslation. Even the word duly is mistranslated as "duty", when we all know that it should be having duly taken his leave not "having duty taken his leave".
BORI
Quote:
Having been thus addressed by Rama, he took his leave and departed. He went to Duryodhana and said, ‘I have become accomplished in the use of weapons.’”’
Analysis: He was accomplished in the use of weapons but he was no master, and certainly not trained in every weapon.
Source: Santi Parva Section 3
- According to bori, Bhisma said karna was truthful not that he fought fairly, so the line is changed. Karna never fought fair.
- According to bori Karna's kavacha kundala was cut by a sword not by the vasavi dart
Quote:
He grasped his sharp sword and began to cut up his entire body. On seeing Karna cut up his own body, the gods, humans, danavas and masses of siddhas began to roar, because despite the pain, there were no distortions on his face. Celestial drums were sounded and divine flowers were showered down from above, at the sight of Karna, the brave man, smiling repeatedly as he cut up his own body with the sword. Having sliced off the divine armour from his body, while it was still wet, he gave it to Vasava.
Analysis: According to bori he used a sword instead of the vasavi dart. So the kavacha kundala would break upon contact with a ORDINARY SWORD/BLADE.
Source: Vana Parva Section 294
Pro Karna points have not been made very well at all in this long running debate/topic.
So basically according to bori
- Karna never strung the bow at Swayamvara, instead he failed in his task.
- Draupadi never rejected Karna, he could not even string her bow.
- Karna did not defeat any Gandharvas in the digvijay.
- Karna did not defeat Bhagadatta.
- Karna did not cut off any celestial armor.
- Karna did not defeat the five pandavas.
- Karna did not cut e11even strings of the Gandiva bow.
- Karna did not lift the earth.
- Karna never incapacitated Arjuna on the seventeenth (17th) day.
- Karna did not master all weapons he only became accomplished in a few.
- Karna did not fight fairly, he was only truthful.
- Karna cut his own divine kavacha kundala using a sword not a celestial dart.
So the fools that say Bori is pro karna and not anti karna are pretty much idiots, as they have not read it at all, yet still cry for bori bori bori. Karna greatest achievements are all confirmed as interpolations, barring his victory over Jarasandha (someone who even Nakula and Sahadeva had an opportunity to defeat).
My favorite quorans (based on the Mahabharata topic only). And in no particular order.
ReplyDelete1. Arnab Ghosh
2. Anmol Kumar Sharma
3. Preeti A Gopal
4. Vishwanath Bheed
5. Dev Pratap
6. Milin Patel (aka "Karna Mehta")
7. Raghu Ram Sola
8. Samrat Bhogle
9. Gaddagunti Manikanta
10. Subhashis Chowdury
Honorable mentions
______________
Deepak Kumar Jha, A.R Revan, Santosh Kumar Ayalasomayajula, Roopal Garg, Daku Angulimal (some guy that keeps creating fake accounts because he saw my success rate), Siddarth & Amrita Talukdar.
Also bhagwat Shah is also a great quoran.
DeleteAnil Verma is a karna fan but he has made at-least one answer that i kind of liked (although it contains misinformation) it was interesting to see him talk about Karna's defeat at the hands of Drupada.
https://www.quora.com/How-could-Drupada-defeat-Kauravas-even-though-they-had-Karna-with-them-Later-what-happened-that-Drupada-was-defeated-by-Pandavas/answer/Anil-Verma-374
Hey man can you change my mind I want to be Arjun support but after reading the notes of vishwesh Waran I can't digest Arjun as supreme
ReplyDeletereading the notes of a namard doesnt help you its better for you to read how karna lost to satyaki, foot soldiers, dhrishtadyumn instead
DeleteI want a discussion with you
ReplyDeletei dont do debates on mahabharat anymore though so i cant discuss with you
DeleteIsse Wikipedia Sai ye mai samajh gya hu ki ek mahan chutiye nai ye website banai hai jo ki book ki truth ko badal raha hai Kuki ye kudh arjun ka andpujari hai 😂😂😂🐷🐷 kahika
ReplyDeleteHow much burnol do you want?
Delete😘 le pee le mera paan or gamd maraa
Delete