This post will be based on the cold unbiased truth about the character called "Ravan", was he really a devotee to Shiva? Was he really a evil rapist type of person? And was he really a weak warrior? Or was he protecting his kingdom's boundary from a bunch of racist aryan's?
The sources i will not be taking into account are Puranas, and Charitmanas & Uttar Kand. I will only type this post by using two source's (Ramayan & Mahabharat).
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The real reason behind his name;
"And as he had terrified all creatures, he was called Ravana."
Logic - nothing to do with Shiva, nothing about bhakti or kailash is mentioned.
The word shravana existed so obviously the name 'Ravan' can be invented from that:
Quote:
Bhishma said "when by Sravana is pointed out his ears".
EDIT [4:35 PM january 21st, 2024]
Ravan getting his name from Shiva is illogical because first of all Kuber's name was "Vaishravana" before the birth of ravana. Even his father's name was "vishrava" indicating that ravan likely got his name from his father not shiva himself.
END of edit {4:36 PM} january 21st (4:38 PM) 2024.
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About Shiva's ability as a boon granter;
"If Mahadeva be gratified, he can bestow even immortality."
Logical analysis - if Ravan was a devotee of Shiva, or the greatest devotee of Shiva then he should have gained this power of immortality but he did not, therefore it is likely that he was not a bhakt of Shiva.
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Shivs connection with Kuber:
"And there, O king, the adorable god sports with the wild and playful followers of Kuvera, possessed of weird and ghostly appearances."
Kuber was the ruler of kailash:
"Obtaining it, Sahadeva became delighted as the Lord of treasures upon obtaining Kailasa."
Location of Kuber's land;
[quote]
"But you all will be overjoyed on traversing that hair-raising wasteland quickly and on attaining Mt. Kailash. There is the delightful mansion of Kubera, which in shine will be like a silver cloud and processed with gold, and the Divine Architect Vishvakarma has constructed it."
[end]
Ravan beat Kuber at-least twice.
1st win against Kuber;
"Once upon a time, this city of Lanka ruled by Kubera (Lord of riches) was conquered by me with the power of my arms."
2nd win against Kuber;
"Kubera (the bestower of riches) who resides on the peak of Mount Kailasa, surrounded by many yakshas (a class of demi-gods) surrendered to you after doing a great battle."
Conclusion - Ravan conquered Kailash not just kubera.
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Why Kuber was actually strong;
"And the kingship of the Yakshas and the sovereignty over sovereigns were also his."
Logic - Kubera had supremacy over many people who were considered powerful.
Kuber had 4 tribe's (armies):
"Having obtained this boon, the Ten-headed Rakshasa defeated Kuvera in battle and obtained from him the sovereignty of Lanka. That adorable Being, leaving Lanka and followed by Gandharvas, Yakshas, Rakshas, and Kinnaras, went to live on mount Gandhamadana."
If Kuber was king of Uttara-Kuru then that mean's Ravan defeated a guy who Arjuna merely collected tributes from but never conquered or fought.
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Chitrasen (lord of Gandharvas) lived in Kuber's border:
[Quote]
"For, O monarch, the king of the Gandharvas accompanied by his followers, had come thither beforehand, from the abode of Kuvera."
[End]
Logic - this's the same Chitrasen who beat Karna, Suyodhan, Duhsasana etc.
Kuber is Shiva's friend.
[Quote]
"In Kailasa challenged the enraged Lord of Alaka, the friend of Maheshvara, that weapon with which Bhima, though resisted by many, had in wrath slain a large number of proud Guhyakas endued with powers of illusion on the breasts of Gandhamadana."
[End]
Valmiki compared KUBER with Shri Ram:
[Quote]
"Sumantra saw Rama sitting like Kubera on a golden couch with the best cloth-covering. He adorned himself well and had the body anointed with sandal perfume, purely smelling like blood of a boar."
[end]
[another]
"Rama, like Kubera the god of wealth, went with resounding horses and elephants."
Kuber got more respect outside of India than namard Hanutati;
{quoTe}
"Kubera is not only popular in the Hindu pantheon, but also prominently features in Buddhism and Jainism as well. In the former, he is known as Vaisravana and Jambhala and is associated with Panchika. In Buddhist sculptures, he is often depicted as being accompanied by a mongoose. In Tibet, the mongoose is considered to be a symbol of Kubera's victory over the Nagas, the guardians of treasures."
{enD}
Kuber saved Ram for mata Seetha.
[quote]
"May Kubera the god of riches and treasure in the north, protect you."
[End]
Kuber got worshiped by Kausalya (mother to Rama):
[Quote]
"May Venus and the moon as also the sun and Kubera (the god of wealth) and Yama (the god of death) who are being worshipped by me, protect you."
[End]
Boons of Kubera.
[Quote]
"Balaram saw at that spot the excellent woods of Kuvera. In days of yore, the high-souled Kuvera, the chief of the Yakshas, having practised the severest austerities there, obtained many boons. There were the lordship of all treasures, the friendship of Rudra possessed of immeasurable energy, the status of a god, the regency over a particular point of the compass (the north), and a son named Nakakuvera. These the chief of the Yakshas speedily obtained there, O thou of mighty arms! The Maruts, coming there, installed him duly (in his sovereignty). He also obtained for a vehicle a well-equipped and celestial chariot, fleet as thought, as also all the affluence of a god."
{End}
Kuber in comparison to a couple Mahabharat fighters.
[Quote]
"Kubera's Nairrata army vanquished King Muchukunda, who in turn defeated them later."
[End]
Logic; ravan beat a warrior whose army had soldier's stronger than Balram (as kalayavana defeated balram & lost against Mucukunda).
"In this connection is cited the old narrative of the discourse between king Muchukunda and Vaisravana. King Muchukunda, having subjugated the whole earth, repaired to the lord of Alaka for testing his strength. King Vaisravana created (by ascetic power) a large force of Rakshasas. These ground the forces led by Muchukunda. Beholding the slaughter of his army, king Muchukunda, O chastiser of foes, began to rebuke his own learned priest (Vasishtha). Thereupon that foremost of righteous persons Vasishtha, underwent very severe penances and, causing those Rakshasas to be slain, ascertained the true course upon which Muchukunda was bent."
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Ravan did not fail in lifting Shiva's body.
[Quote]
"He conquered the guardians of the worlds and lifted up Lord Shiva."
[End]
Who classified as a "guardian of the world" (Diga-Palah)?
[Quote]
"Oh, king Dasaratha! Let sun and the moon, guardians of the world like Shiva and Kubera, Varuna, Agni and Indra grant victory to you!"
[End]
Ironically.. as hard as it is to believe but even the sanskrit text says the same thing:
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[image is completed]
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Ravan as a warrior.
Varun donated to parshurams ancestor:
[start]
"Give me a thousand fleet steeds brown in colour, and each with one black ear. I want the same as dowry for my marriage." To him Varuna forthwith gave a thousand steeds. Those steeds had issued out of the river Ganga
[end]
Ravan defeated brahmin-warrior Agastya.
He beat the sons of Varun deva:
[quote] "Oh, illustrious king! Varuna's sons, valiant strong and who were followed by an army having four limbs (viz. elephants, chariots, cavalry and infantry) were defeated by you in a battle." [end quote]
The brahmin agastya was one of Varun's sons:
"Agastya, the son of Mitra, and Varuna, said"
More proof:
"Then they beheld the high-souled Agastya, the son of Varuna."
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Brahmarishis wanted to kill Ravan but could not:
[quote]
"Then the Brahmarshis, the Siddhas and the Devarshis, with Havyavaha as their spokesman, sought the protection of Brahma."
[end]
[quote]
"Endued with great might Ravan oppresses in every possible way the creatures of the earth. Protect us, therefore, O adorable one! There is none else save thee to protect us!"
[end]
Agastya was the scourge of south india.
"The southern quarter, which was difficult to be approached by the world of mortals, was conquered by the Sage Agastya."
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Among Varuna's betas their was also a Vashist included.
[Begin]
"He who was obtained as son by Varuna was called Vasishtha, the Muni who afterwards came to be known as Apava. He had his asylum on the breast of the king of mountains called Meru. The spot was sacred and abounded with birds and beasts."
[Finish]
Logic - Apava was the name of the brahmin who cursed Sahastrarjuna.
Probably that is why Sahastrarjun did not take his curse very seriously because a guy he defeated (Ravan) was able to defeat Apava.
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Ravan's magic.
1] he could manifest clones of shri Ram's.
[Quote]
"The king of the Rakshasas then once more put forth his prowess of illusion. The Ten-faced, producing from his body numerous warriors resembling, O Bharata, both Rama and Lakshmana, rushed towards the two brothers. And then those Rakshasas, hostile to Rama and Lakshmana and armed with bows and arrows, rushed towards Rama, and beholding that power of illusion put forth by the king of Rakshasas, that descendant of Ikshwaku's race, the son of Sumitra, addressed Rama in these heroic words 'Slay those Rakshasas, those wretches with forms like thy own!' And Rama, thereupon slew those and other Rakshasas of forms resembling his own."
{end}
2] He could breathe fire.
Quote:
"While he was yawning with anger; a fire with smoke, as though clearly burning, broke out from his mouth."
Quality of his vimana (spacecraft/plane).
[quote]
"And he rode on that beautiful and sky-ranging chariot called the Pushpaka that was capable of going everywhere at the will of the rider."
[end]
Logic - it can go anywhere he wanted it to go too.
Another ability;
[quote]
"Duly permitted by Tara, all the wives of the monkeys, wearing their costumes as per rule and going round the aerial car clockwise, ascended it with an intent to see Seetha."
[end]
Logic - it can fit hundred's of individual's and warriors in it at minimum.
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Other achievement's.
[quote] "Possessed of power and filled with pride, thou hast, before this, slain many Rishis living in the woods, and insulted the very gods. Thou hast slain also many great kings and many weeping women. For those transgressions of thine, retribution is about to overtake thee!" [end quote]
Logic - the king's who Ram/Angad labelled "great" are most likely rulers of Aryavarth. Ravan killing women [that were crying] is also mentioned.
Ravan was a expert at arrangement of Vyuhas.
"And surrounded by his terrible army of Rakshasas and Pisachas, Ravana who was conversant with the rules of warfare like a second Usanas invested the monkey host, having disposed his troops in that array which is named after Usanas himself. And beholding Ravana advancing with his army disposed in that array, Rama, following the mode recommended by Vrihaspati, disposed his troops in counter array for opposing that wanderer of the night."
Ravan was not a king he was actually a Emperor:
"Placed as thou art on the blazing throne of an empire, it behoveth thee not to slay a woman!"
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He conquered 5 different tribes:
[quote]
"Inflamed by desire, that conquerer in battle of the gods, the Danavas, the Gandharvas, the Yakshas, and the Kimpurushas, attired in celestial robes and possessing handsome features."
[end]
Durability;
"And the Ten-headed Ravana, supporting life by means of air alone and surrounded by the five sacred fires and absorbed in meditation, remained standing on one leg for a thousand years."
Logic - this's very impressive, he fasted and never ate anything for 1,000 yrs & held his own bodyweight on just a single leg.
Boons gained.
1st:
"And thy body will not be disfigured and thou shall be able to assume any form according to thy desire and become the conqueror of thy foes in battle. There is no doubt of this!"
Explanation - ravan will be a winner, and he has the power to change his form, look's, height etc.
2nd:
"May I never experience defeat at the hands of Gandharvas, Celestials, Kinnaras, Asuras, Yakshas, Rakshasas, Serpents and all other creatures!"
Logical conclusion - chitrasen (gandharv), indra (celestial), yama (celestial), vasuki (serpent), meghanad (rakshasa), atikaya (rakshasa), bali (rakshasa), bana (rakshas), surya (celestial), would never be able to beat Ravan.
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He lifted 3 mountains.
[Quote]
"Though he was able to lift up Himavat, Mandara and Meru mountains as also the Three Worlds with the Gods."
[End]
Logic - Meru is where brahma resided.
MERU:
"there illumining the northern regions, lies the puissant Mahameru, auspicious and the refuge of those knowing Brahma, where is the court of Brahma, and remaining where that soul of all creatures, Prajapati, has created all that is mobile and immobile. And the Mahameru is the auspicious and healthy abode even of the seven mind-born sons of Brahma, of whom Daksha was the seventh."
And, O child, here it is that the seven celestial rishis with Vasishtha at their head rise and set. Behold that excellent and bright summit of the Meru, where sits the great sire (Brahma) with the celestials happy in self-knowledge. And next to the abode of Brahma is visible the region of him who is said to be the really primal Cause or the origin of all creatures, even that prime lord, god Narayana, having neither beginning nor end.
And, O king, that auspicious place composed of all energies even the celestials, cannot behold. And the region of the high-souled Vishnu, by its native splendour, exceeding in effulgence the sun or fire, cannot be beheld by the gods, or the Danavas. And the region of Narayana lies resplendent to the east of the Meru, where, O child, that lord of all creatures, the self-create primal Cause of the universe, having manifested all beings, looks splendid of his excellent grace. O child, not to speak of the Maharshi even Brahmarshis have no access to that place."
[End]
MANDARA:
This king of mountains, Mandara lies vast, covering the earth up to the ocean. O Pandava, Indra and Vaisravana preside over this point graced with woods and forests and mountains. And, O child, the intelligent sages versed in every duty, say, that this (region) is the abode of Indra and king Vaisravana. And the twice-born ones, and the sages versed in the duties, and the Sidhas, and the Sadhyas, and the celestials pay their adorations unto the Sun as he rises from this point.
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Other detail's about Mandara.
[quote]
"With a large, black and shining string worn round his loins, he was looking like Mount Mandara encircled by a serpent at the time of churning the ambrosia."
Logic - mandara was the same mountain which could only be churned or pulled by the combined power of devtas and asuras.
Mandara mountain was where SHIVA's abode was located as per Mahabharat.
[Quote]
"Without going to the place where Sankara stayeth, ye cannot see the divine Hara. Having seen that god, ye will be able to vanquish Vritra. Therefore, go ye without delay to the mountains of Mandara. There stayeth that origin of ascetic penances, that destroyer of Daksha's sacrifice, that wielder of Pinaka, that lord of all creatures, that slayer of the Asura called Bhaganetra."
[End.]
Logic - so if Ravana is competent enough to lift this mandara up then i dont see any problem with people thinking ravana's physical strength was better than gandu hanutati's or hanuman or laxman etc.
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Ram was below Ravan as a warrior.
1st Quote;
"Had Vibhishan not revealed the secret of Ravan's eternity to Ram, the latter would never have vanquished the former. So the credit for killing the evil should go in some measure to Vibhishan, but that is not how our society judges Vibhishan."
2nd;
Ravan defeating Ram on Sarga fifty nine.
Seetha claimed Ram always tell's the truth:
"My husband is evermore a renderer but not a recipient, and forever he speaks truth, and not the untruth, least of all. Oh, Brahman, this is the unalterable and unsurpassable vow of Rama."
[End]
Ram's claim.
[Quote]
"O king of the demoniace people! the one who was struck by the spear obtaining sorrow the same Lakshmana recovering consciousness immediately and assuming the form of death will now claim you along with your sons and grandsons in battle."
"Here is he under whose arrows fourteen thousand demons of terrible form perished who had established themselves in Janasthana and were furnished with excellent weapons."
[End]
Logic - the reason it's really Rama not Laxman is because the slayer of those 14,000 raksh warrior's has always been mentioned as "Rama" so here Laxman has been used in place of Rama. Thus the individual who Ravan defeated with a spear is Ram. Translator's and Valmiki have tried to conceal the defeat Ram suffered.
Proving it was Rama who stated these word's.
[Quote]
"Hearing the words of Rama, Ravana of great strength, full of rage and recollecting his former hostility struck with flaming arrows resembling the tongues of the Fire of Dissolution."
[End]
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Ravan was called "ever-victorious":
[Quote]
"raavaNaH = Ravana; samitiN^jayaH = who had ever seen victorious in battle;"
[End]
Logic - this's a quote from a point in time which is after the first fight Ram had with Ravan, it comes from the narrator's mouth aka Valmiki's own mouth.
Ravan was also a sword fighter.
[quote]
"As a valiant and shrewd chariot-warrior, fighting with a sword, in the foremost of your chariots, you can fetch Seetha by killing Rama, the son of Dasaratha."
[end]
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He could move all ten direction's with shaking his own eyebrows.
"All the ten directions were distracted because of Ravana's act of disorderly movement of his body due to yawning and he looked like the wrath manifest in the limbs of Rudra appearing with a form."
Accolade.
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However this final image is from a TV serial. ITS NOW DONE.
The Sarga 59 thing is most likely just a translation issue. Here is another translation -
ReplyDelete"Oh! king of Rakshasa troop! He, who was struck without support now, even if he were to come now in front, you with your sons and grandsons will be struck to death by him."
"By me, who is your adversary, fourteen thousand Rakshasas of fierce forms, who had taken abode at Janasthana and used choicest weapons were exterminated."
So Rama is clearly talking about lakshmana in the 1st paragraph. In 2nd paragraph Rama is talking about himself.
Without debunking or refuting your comment i will simply express gratitude and say THANK U š for reading this post thoroughly with a keen interest.
DeleteIn the critical edition, it's even more obvious -
ReplyDelete'You struck down someone with your spear today, but he overcame his distress and quickly arose. O king of large numbers of rakshasas! In the battle today, death will come to you and to your sons and wives.’
See. No mention of 14,000 soldiers in critical edition. Rama is just saying that Lakshmana overcame distress and arose again and that Ravana will perish in the battle field today.
The critical edition as admitted by even die hard devotees (like shaswat Gupta) is not the basis yard stick criteria or standard.
DeleteThe valmiki online ramayan that was linked in the post is older than your critical edition.
But if u are a devotee of that namard hanuman then u all lose all credibility so I won't expect a decent reply from u.
Well then here is an even older translation by M.N Dutt. This is one of the oldest English translations of Ramayana -
Delete"And (Lakshmana), going forth to the fight, hath been wounded with the dart and hath suddenly been stupified. But, O king of the Rakshas,to-day in conflict Death shall claim for his own thee and thy sons and grandsons. By me with my shafts have been slaughtered four and ten thousand Rakshasas residing in Janasthana, wielding excellent weapons"
See. Once again lakshmana is the one who is hit by the spear. Rama clearly differentiate himself and lakshmana.
BY THE WAY.
DeleteI found this and edited it to be added onto the post.
Mandara mountain was where SHIVA's abode was located as per Mahabharat.
[Quote]
"Without going to the place where Sankara stayeth, ye cannot see the divine Hara. Having seen that god, ye will be able to vanquish Vritra. Therefore, go ye without delay to the mountains of Mandara. There stayeth that origin of ascetic penances, that destroyer of Daksha's sacrifice, that wielder of Pinaka, that lord of all creatures, that slayer of the Asura called Bhaganetra."
[End.]
https://sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07090.htm
Logic - so if Ravana is competent enough to lift this mandara up then i dont see any problem with people thinking ravana's physical strength was better than gandu hanutati's or hanuman or laxman etc.
According to Valmiki Ramayan Ravan LIFTED MANDARA.
1. The Same Ravana is unable to move Lakshmana's body -
Delete"Though he was able to lift up Himavat, Mandara and Meru mountains as also the Three Worlds with the Gods, he could not raise Lakshmana the younger brother of Bharata."
Sarga 59, Yuddha Kanda.
2. Hanuman on the other hand could lift Lakshmana easily -
"Then, the courageous Hanuma lifting up Lakshmana in his arms, who had been wounded by Ravana, brought him to Rama's presence."
Sarga 59.
But laxmans body was moved by angad & vibeeshan too.
DeleteSo I take ur quote of "ravan failing to move laxmans body" as merely this:
What happened is that ravan tried lifting the body of laxman WOULD HAVE succeeded BUT hanuman came to interfere.
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Lastly if u want a debate then I will be ready/active in 6 hours then both of us can go back and forth WITHOUT any comment being deleted or usage of gaalis.
it looks like after 16 days he was too incapable to actually reply, so the bhakts of hanuman lose AGAIN
Delete